Amplifying poe signal

[Kloubek]

So, here's one for you techie guys.

I have a 4-camera security system at my home, and the two longest ones tend to lose power and shut off. Sometimes it takes days, sometimes a couple hours. Sometimes there isn't even enough power to get them to fire up again without repeated manual disconnections and reconnections.

It appears that the longest lines aren't getting enough power. If this is the case, then I need to boost the signal somehow. I obviously can't get the PVR unit to which they are connected to pump out more power, so is there a product whereby 4 ports can get their amps pumped up a bit before leaving on their journey down the lines to the cameras? (Does it even work that way? Resistance loss can be compensated with extra amps) Or do I have to install an injector at each camera? (Which is almost impossible to find power outlets for)

Thanks in advance.

[benyl]

Is the PVR rated to provide PoE to the number of cameras you have? How many watts can it output and how many watts does each camera draw?

Typical switches only provide a certain number of watts and can only power a subset of ports. Anything over that needs an injector.

You can one as low as $25. https://www.memoryexpress.com/Search...Poe%20injector

[ShermanEF9]

get yourself a decent PoE injector and run that camera off of that. you should be fine running the injector right at the pvr.

[Kloubek]

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Is the PVR rated to provide PoE to the number of cameras you have? How many watts can it output and how many watts does each camera draw?

Typical switches only provide a certain number of watts and can only power a subset of ports. Anything over that needs an injector.

You can one as low as $25. https://www.memoryexpress.com/Search...Poe%20injector

Well the PVR is meant to run 4 cameras, and even when I disconnect a couple it doesn't seem to help the 2 that have issues. I think it is largely due to higher than needed resistance in the cabling. With a higher quality cable, I probably don't have this problem.

As far as draw and output, I really don't know. I will contact the manufacturer to see what kind of draw these cameras have, which should help determine what injector I can buy. I did read something about 7 watts, so if I were to hook up one of those 12 or 24 watt units does that mean I blow the camera? I actually see them on there for as low as $19 which is a perfectly decent price point. If that would work, then it is just a matter of finding where to plug it in where I can draw AC power inline before the camera.

[Swank]

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Well the PVR is meant to run 4 cameras, and even when I disconnect a couple it doesn't seem to help the 2 that have issues. I think it is largely due to higher than needed resistance in the cabling. With a higher quality cable, I probably don't have this problem.

As far as draw and output, I really don't know. I will contact the manufacturer to see what kind of draw these cameras have, which should help determine what injector I can buy. I did read something about 7 watts, so if I were to hook up one of those 12 or 24 watt units does that mean I blow the camera? I actually see them on there for as low as $19 which is a perfectly decent price point. If that would work, then it is just a matter of finding where to plug it in where I can draw AC power inline before the camera.

I dunno, cables have to be pretty damn long for the resistance to have any significant impact on the power (~300 ft). Can you hook all for up right at the PVR to take cable distance out of the equation and see if the issue persists? And the more watts the better (until it's just plain wasteful), the cameras should only draw what they need so better to have power to spare than just barely enough. PoE+ injectors don't cost much more but may be overkill. The cameras we use at work use between 7 and 30 watts and PoE+ is 30 watts, some cameras with heaters can draw up to 60 watts (for outdoor applications).

[Kloubek]

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I dunno, cables have to be pretty damn long for the resistance to have any significant impact on the power (~300 ft). Can you hook all for up right at the PVR to take cable distance out of the equation and see if the issue persists? And the more watts the better (until it's just plain wasteful), the cameras should only draw what they need so better to have power to spare than just barely enough. PoE+ injectors don't cost much more but may be overkill. The cameras we use at work use between 7 and 30 watts and PoE+ is 30 watts, some cameras with heaters can draw up to 60 watts (for outdoor applications).

Sorry... just saw this.

So, I did try a local connection with a short cord, and it works just fine. Doesn't cut out or anything. So it seems to me that either the cabling used was substandard, or the length is too long (which, as you say, it'd have to be pretty long).

Still, I wonder if pushing more power through the POE right at the NVR hookup would work. So the part I'm confused about before I try this is watts, volts, and amps. The camera only uses some 7 watts at 12volts, and .5 amps. Because the camera will draw whatever power it needs, how important is it that the injector I use remains at 12 volts and/or .5 watts?

[Crazyjoker77]

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Sorry... just saw this.

So, I did try a local connection with a short cord, and it works just fine. Doesn't cut out or anything. So it seems to me that either the cabling used was substandard, or the length is too long (which, as you say, it'd have to be pretty long).

Still, I wonder if pushing more power through the POE right at the NVR hookup would work. So the part I'm confused about before I try this is watts, volts, and amps. The camera only uses some 7 watts at 12volts, and .5 amps. Because the camera will draw whatever power it needs, how important is it that the injector I use remains at 12 volts and/or .5 watts?

Voltage is what you need to be concerned with and is what the NVR/injector is regulating. The amps is what changes depending on what load you have hooked up. The lower the voltage supplied the higher the amps will be. The voltage has to be kept in the operating range of the camera or it simply wont work and this operating range can will vary with every camera. Power (or W) is simply a calculation of voltage x current. P=EI (W=VA). 7w or [email protected] (in actuality its 6w) is essentially the same thing since we assume voltage is going to be constant.

The NVR only has capability to control voltage and it may not even be user configurable. The amp and power rating is nothing more than what it is capable or running at.

How are you planning on making the NVR provide more "power" to the camera? Most I've seen don't really have and user configurable ways.

[mazdavirgin]

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Sorry... just saw this.

So, I did try a local connection with a short cord, and it works just fine. Doesn't cut out or anything. So it seems to me that either the cabling used was substandard, or the length is too long (which, as you say, it'd have to be pretty long).

Still, I wonder if pushing more power through the POE right at the NVR hookup would work. So the part I'm confused about before I try this is watts, volts, and amps. The camera only uses some 7 watts at 12volts, and .5 amps. Because the camera will draw whatever power it needs, how important is it that the injector I use remains at 12 volts and/or .5 watts?

Something doesn't add up here... PoE is ~48VDC. If your camera says 12VDC it's probably not PoE or it has to have a onboard down conversion. If you exceed the rated voltage bad things are bound to happen. It's possible that your camera setup is running some form of weird proprietary power delivery that is not PoE.

Post up the part numbers for your cameras and the NVR.

[ShermanEF9]

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Something doesn't add up here... PoE is ~48VDC. If your camera says 12VDC it's probably not PoE or it has to have a onboard down conversion. If you exceed the rated voltage bad things are bound to happen. It's possible that your camera setup is running some form of weird proprietary power delivery that is not PoE.

Post up the part numbers for your cameras and the NVR.

a lot of equipment that uses poe is also 12v.

if you're at 300 feet or more you'll run into issues with poe.

[mazdavirgin]

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a lot of equipment that uses poe is also 12v.

if you're at 300 feet or more you'll run into issues with poe.

Pretty much anything under the sun you pick up as a PoE device from your local store is going to follow IEEE 802.3af which is going to deliver ~48VDC. Plug that into your random weirdo proprietary device and it's going to go boom. Electronics are extremely sensitive to voltage and if the device is designed for 12VDC and you feed it with 48VDC you're going to have a bad time.

[Kloubek]

So I have 4 cameras. 2 domes, 2 bullets. The one bullet is always on without a problem, and it is the closest to the NVR which I believe is the reason why it never cuts out. The one 2nd closest is on most of the time, but does cut out often as well but eventually turns itself back on here and there. These are both the bullets. The two that are farthest away are the domes, which often show up when first connected (sometimes it takes a few tries) but cut out inside a few hours thereafter. I did not go up to get the info on the bullets, but the domes show on the back that they are:
Fixed dome camera by FLIR Model N233ZC. Power consumption is 12V DC 270mA. (So I was wrong in the .5 amp thing, apparently).

The injector I had picked up was a .5a, 12v injector. Now that I recall, my thinking was that perhaps with a higher amperage it would "force" more energy through the line and despite what I believe to be loss through the line, hopefully it would still be enough to keep the camera on. Of course, this idea was based off a very limited (nonexistent?) knowledge of power in general. I was going to connect it inline at the NVR.

In short, I'm all but positive it is the long leads that is causing my issue based on what I've already written. Maybe it's shit cabling. Not sure if there is anything I even CAN do to improve the situation, but my very first thought was that if the cameras work with a short cable just fine, if I were to inject power closer to the camera maybe it would operate as if the NVR was closer to the camera.

[kenny]

What NVR are you using for those cameras? The dome cameras you are using has dual power inputs: 12V or POE (802.3af). If your NVR supports 802.3af it is sending power at 48V and there shouldn't be any issues with distance. Sounds like you have some bad cabling.

If you're going to need to add power anyway, may as well keep it simple and power it through a standard DC 12V power source vs injecting into the ethernet cable.

[Kloubek]

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What NVR are you using for those cameras? The dome cameras you are using has dual power inputs: 12V or POE (802.3af). If your NVR supports 802.3af it is sending power at 48V and there shouldn't be any issues with distance. Sounds like you have some bad cabling.

If you're going to need to add power anyway, may as well keep it simple and power it through a standard DC 12V power source vs injecting into the ethernet cable.

It's the standard FLIR NVR that came with the set; I can get the model # if it helps in any way.

Yes, I saw a second dongle on the cameras. The issue is getting electrical (and an outlet) at every camera site. There's room, as 2/3 of the affected cameras are in the eves it's just finding a way to run a line and install an outlet up there. That's why I was pipe-dream hoping there was a way of intensifying the power.

[eblend]

I have an 8 port POE Cisco switch that you can try and buy for reasonable price, that's true POE. From the sounds of it it sounds like something is wrong with the POE power itself. I presume the ports on the NVR are just switch ports, so you should be able to throw this switch between the cameras and the NVR and then plug it into one of the NVR ports, and all cameras should show up. This will be a much cleaner setup and would allow you to eliminate POE problem on the NVR side. I would trust Cisco POE over other vendors as it would for sure follow standards. POE is 48V, the camera should expect 48V over Ethernet, and 12V over AC.

[Kloubek]

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I have an 8 port POE Cisco switch that you can try and buy for reasonable price, that's true POE. From the sounds of it it sounds like something is wrong with the POE power itself. I presume the ports on the NVR are just switch ports, so you should be able to throw this switch between the cameras and the NVR and then plug it into one of the NVR ports, and all cameras should show up. This will be a much cleaner setup and would allow you to eliminate POE problem on the NVR side. I would trust Cisco POE over other vendors as it would for sure follow standards. POE is 48V, the camera should expect 48V over Ethernet, and 12V over AC.

Yeah I'd totally be willing to give that a try and buy it if it works. Please PM.

[ShermanEF9]

are you sure the issue is power, and not the cable itself? I had a camera the other day at work that would stay powered, but had spotty communication (would not stay online long enough to pass information.) turned out to be the cable. i would redo your cable ends to start, or get a continuity tester.