Alberta Driver's License Road Tests Re-Regulated

[msommers]

can you tell I'm hungover

[kertejud2]

‘By making licensing more restrictive you are limiting people’s ability to drive a car and therefore reducing their freedom of movement and further subjecting them to social engineering designed to increase the individual’s reliance on the state for transportation. This is the first step to removing R1 housing options for proper Families. This is the first step towards communism!’

- Larry Heather, probably

[firebane]

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‘By making licensing more restrictive you are limiting people’s ability to drive a car and therefore reducing their freedom of movement and further subjecting them to social engineering designed to increase the individual’s reliance on the state for transportation. This is the first step to removing R1 housing options for proper Families. This is the first step towards communism!’

- Larry Heather, probably

I would rather have people stripped of their license than be a hazard on the road

- Every Calgarian

LoL

[ipeefreely]

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can you tell I'm hungover

If that's you hungover, I wouldn't like to see you when you're drunk!!

[suntan]

There's no mandatory driving courses here still is there?

[dannie]

Here's the issue with the entire thing. Get ready, this is a long read.

There are three consultations going on in the same engagement.

1. Mandatory training for new class 1 and 2 drivers
2. Changes to Carrier Services
3. Government taking back road testing from private business

Lets talk about each separately.

The mandatory training for class 1 and 2 is being expedited because of Humboldt. Alberta sees a flaw in the fact that you can walk in and get a class 5 licence on monday, do all of your testing and have a class 1 by friday. What the framework will look like, i have no idea. I would venture to assume it will be similar to Ontario's program where its a 2 years training system.

Carrier services is looking for changes because there are tons of loop holes (policy was written in the 80's). I might have my company shut down for whatever reason by the province, but then i can turn around the next day and have a friend open another company and start operating again within a week. Fair? Safe? I'll let you decide. This is also being expedited because of Humboldt.

Driver Testing is the one I am struggling with personally (ps: my opinions are that of my own and do not reflect GOA or my offices). There was a study that is included with the engagement on the government site that is 26-28 pages long. It states that the biggest issues were that there were 40 complaints received by AB Transportation about road tests. That those 40 complaints were everything from bribery, abuse etc. What the study didn't include is that the number of tests completed were around 150,000. They received 40 complaints out of 150,000 tests. 0.003% complaints. Seriously? Any company I know would be stoked to have that kind of rate of complaints.

Their next standing point is that there is no training, accountability or oversight. But there is! AB Transport oversees the entire program. Reviews the examiners. Holds them accountable. Reverses decisions etc. Could it be better oversight? Absolutely. The flaw is actually with the government oversight. Not the private businesses.

Additionally, the report talks about bad examiners and how these complaints are serious. They are. For sure, but do you think there arent bad government officials? You think bringing it back to a government run program will make everyone morally effective??? HAHAHAHA LOL riiigggghhht

Whether you are government or private sector, there are always bad apples. So, going back to the 0.003% complaint rate, i really doubt the Gov could do better.

The other thing that makes me mad is that the study talks about the public. It doesnt reflect the examiner. Does it talk about the abuse they take? The bribe offers that the examiners turn down on a daily basis? How about the physical abuse that they endure (im talking getting beaten in a parking lot because they failed a driver - for real). No. It doesnt. It doesnt talk about the 98% of examiners that do a good job on a daily basis. It focuses on the 2% of crappy people.

My opinion, is that the gov cannot do better. In fact, based on government models in other jurisdictions - they cannot do better.

The solution? Keep the private model but provide the oversight needed. Also, why allow the examiner to tell the member of the public that the passed or failed? Mail the results out. Takes the abuse, anger and hostility out of the examiners wheelhouse. The examiner should be sending all results to government to approve and send out pass or fail remarks. Easy. That alone would solve 95% of the issue. You can't bribe someone who doesn't make the final call.

If safety is a concern, then perhaps GOA should be providing portable dashcams that the examiner has to set up in the car to record during the test. Simple, 50 dollar solution to a problem that is easily fixable.

The part of all of this that angers me is that the offer to engage the industry and public came out yesterday and they are closing the engagement July 27. They are allowing two weeks of public engagement for a significant item like this, but they gave what - 2 years to talk about changing day light savings time?? Fuck off. The only reason this is a public engagement is for the optics. I believe the decision has been made and no one really give a shit about the trucking industry or the private businesses that this will affect (ie: too cool motorcycle school, fleet safety, the examiners etc).

Anyhoo..... my frustration is showing and that wasn't my initial intent. At the end of the day, no one seems to actually have a say in this other than the minister involved. PS: I do believe Alberta should have mandatory in car training for class 5 licences.

[msommers]

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3. Government taking back road testing from private business

How much would a private business lose per year because of this, roughly? Is there a portion of the test that goes to GoA and it's going towards [I]all[I] of it?

[AndyL]

Can we just start with some biometrics on driver's license / tests?

Like really, there's a philipino and a Sudanese guy I see regularly at the registry, always waiting for a driver's test. I know they have a license, both work at a facility near here that hires only TFWs... I've towed both of them for breakdowns. First name basis with one of them...

Surely I can't be the only one who notices these two guys are constantly doing road tests... There's only 3 registries around here for the love of God.

Edit - oh and... Union jobs of course!

[dannie]

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How much would a private business lose per year because of this, roughly? Is there a portion of the test that goes to GoA and it's going towards [I]all[I] of it?

Depends on how GOA does it. The road test fees are broken down into 4 segments. $5 goes directly to GOA, a negotiated amount goes to the examiner, negotiated amount to registry and then GST on the examiner and registry amount only.

So, for example, if the road test for a basic exam is $80, 5 goes to goa (75 left), 35 may go to the registry for facilitating the booking - ie: system, scheduling, organizing and providing an establishment to work from, $3.75 GST and then 36.25 to the examiner to do the test. The basic class 5 is a 30 minute test.

Looking at it realistically, would you want to be paid less than that to get in the passenger seat of a car, with someone you've never met and hope you don't die because they've had zero training for the test or because they don't understand basic english? I tell them all the time, i couldnt do their job. At quick glance the number seems high, but its not unrealistic considering the 36.25 would go to the examiners company where they will pay corporate taxes, then take out dividends and end up with maybe 21 bucks in their pocket as a wage for it.

- - - Updated - - -

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Can we just start with some biometrics on driver's license / tests?

God - we would love that! That and Alberta Health Care with your photo on it. But - that's another rant that I will save for another day lol

[firebane]

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Can we just start with some biometrics on driver's license / tests?

Like really, there's a philipino and a Sudanese guy I see regularly at the registry, always waiting for a driver's test. I know they have a license, both work at a facility near here that hires only TFWs... I've towed both of them for breakdowns. First name basis with one of them...

Surely I can't be the only one who notices these two guys are constantly doing road tests... There's only 3 registries around here for the love of God.

Edit - oh and... Union jobs of course!

Testers are contracted to the registries and some do both Class 5 and 6 tests.

[AndyL]

I must not be clear... Both have licenses and full-time jobs at a industrial facility, but are regularly in line at the registry to take drivers tests...

Do we really think thats coincidental? They're not administrating the test, they're the ones taking the test...

I wish I was joking. But I really wonder if some people think all brown guys look alike. Lol

[kertejud2]

So we’ve gone from restricting the freedom of movement to needing to forfeit your right to privacy via biometrics to have a license.

Who knew this place was so full of left wingers fighting to improve bicycle and pedestrian mode share by restricting freedom (rather than my idea of icnceasing them via increased choice).

[tirebob]

Really I think blanket regular testing is kind of silly. If they want to make a difference, start with actual driver training to get your license, which includes not only lawful driving ideals, but also courtesy oriented aspects. Then implement some form of classwork and re-testing based on an individual's driving record. If you get a certain amount of moving violations or specific violations, then classwork and re-testing is involved. If you cause an accident, then do the same thing. Once you pass a certain age maybe have some form of regular reaction testing implemented but otherwise if you are a problem free driver, I see no reason why padding the coffers of government and expanding on their powers is necessary.

[ianmcc]

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I must not be clear... Both have licenses and full-time jobs at a industrial facility, but are regularly in line at the registry to take drivers tests...

Do we really think thats coincidental? They're not administrating the test, they're the ones taking the test...

I wish I was joking. But I really wonder if some people think all brown guys look alike. Lol

Talking with a Purolator courier on Thursday he mentioned a three man team out of Alberta driving a highway rig with only one class 1 license between them. And running 24/7.

[AndyL]

Those stories are legendary... Any truth to them? Don't know. Like I said I find it curious that these two guys are always in the road test line. One of them is my hookup for ground beef. And the number of crashes at the entrance to that certain facility says - most would never stand a chance of passing a real Alberta road test - but all of them have licenses...I've cleared 3 rollovers in the parking lot alone. Seriously.

[speedog]

How about the GOA get back to having all driver testing, written or driving, done only in Canada's two official languages instead of the twenty five they currently offer? Take the money savings there and push it into better driver testing.

[spikerS]

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So we’ve gone from restricting the freedom of movement to needing to forfeit your right to privacy via biometrics to have a license.

Who knew this place was so full of left wingers fighting to improve bicycle and pedestrian mode share by restricting freedom (rather than my idea of icnceasing them via increased choice).

There is no restriction of your personal rights and freedoms or movement. Nor are you forfeiting your right to privacy with biometrics on your DL.

Driving is not a right. We have had this discussion multiple times. Driving is a privilege. You don't need a car to travel, you could ride a bike, scooter, skateboard, jog, skip, run, do cartwheels, walk, hitch-hike, take a bus/plane/train, hire an uber or taxi to get you from point A to point B, the options are pretty much wide open if you want to exercisze your right to movement. Not having a driver's licence does not impair your right to freedom of movement.

If one of the laws becomes that you must have some sort of bio-metric on your DL to prove authenticity of the DL or that you are who your DL says you are, that is part of the rules and privlidge required to have a DL and operate a motor vehicle on public roadways. The bio-metric could be anything from a finger print to an iris scan, and anything in between. I fail to see how proving your identity to a police officer at roadside is equal to forefiting your right to privacy for something that is not a guaranteed right or freedom.

Also, if you feel that your right to "freedom of movement" is being impaired, you should go back to the USA, since that right is guaranteed there, though still, not with a driver's licence. Here in Canada-land we have something called the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The weak point you are trying to argue here would fall under section 6 of said Charter, and is called "Mobility Rights" and refers mainly to the ability to enter, remain in, and leave Canada, and settle in any region of Canada at thier whim. Here, I will make it easy for you...

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right

a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
(3) The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to

a) any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and
b) any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.
(4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration in a province of conditions of individuals in that province who are socially or economically disadvantaged if the rate of employment in that province is below the rate of employment in Canada.

So Kertejud2, would you happen to be a freeman on the land?

[dirtsniffer]

Isn't a picture good enough?

[HiTempguy1]

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So Kertejud2, would you happen to be a freeman on the land?

You've fallen hook line and sinker for Kert. He's just playing what he envisions a libertarian/conservative would say about this as he is quite clearly far left/a socialist. If you read his previous post in this thread, he even specifically calls out Beyond as a whole for having a right wing attitude except for on a subject like this.

[suntan]

He's actually mostly right wing. Complains about his high taxes and how less wealthy people should pay more taxes.