Do you get the flu shot? 2018 edition

[J-hop]

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There has been more than one mention of banning people who have not been vaccinated from school, public positions etc. as well mentions that it should be mandatory. That isn't criticizing only... That is essentially advocating for forcing it on people. I am not saying you said that (I am to lazy to go back through all the posts to quote such things) but it has been said in this thread and others like it before.

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Things like nursing positions for example though. The employer has every right to set requirements like that, as for example a drilling company can require employees to take H2S alive before they can work for them., if people don’t agree with the requirements then they don’t have to work there.

School i agree with you is an area where we at least need debate. Do I think a kid that isn’t flu vaccinated should be banned? Not really. Do I think a kid that isn’t vaccinated for measles, polio etc should be banned? Absolutely

[Misterman]

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Pretty much this... I think a lot of people do not trust "peer reviewed" because what is accepted today is proven wrong tomorrow. What is safe today is the wrong thing tomorrow. It is seen in many ways medical and scientific on a regular basis. My point is not that I think the shot does nothing, but more it is not necessary. Almost everyone knows that washing your hands is one of the very most important things one can do to prevent the spread of disease and that is enough protection for me I don't need peer reviewed BS to attempt at quantifying the constantly shifting percentage points of variance. I am not scared of the flu and don't feel the need to partake in it. I don't care if other people disagree and want the shot. I don't care if your bodies systems don't allow you to take it and you think I should have to because of that. It isn't my job to inject myself or take meds or any of that stuff to keep your body safe. If you have a condition it is your job to live within the confines as such. I don't need big business slanting the angles in the name of profit which I do personally believe it is happening and no, I don't need to hire a private detective team and produce peer reviewed reports to show the flu vaxx fanboys why I think like this or not. I just don't give a fuck. You do what you do and I will do what I do without feeling the guilt trip they try and lay on us.

That's how science works though. You make a theory today based off of what we know currently. As we learn more, theories can evolve and change. It's not locked into one mindset forever that refuses to accept new information like religion for example.

There is value in peer review, as a scientist it's exactly what you want, someone in your field to review things with a different view to catch something you might have missed. Without peer review you'd just have any idiot calling himself a scientist publishing nonsense. The problem with peer review stems from having irrelevant fields review and have input. If I was a biologist, why the hell would I want to review papers on quantum theory? Yet that's exactly what happens when it comes to BS things like climate change. They have unqualified fields review anecdotal data compiled into a "study", and then try and pass it of to the public that "97% of scientists agree with human caused climate change." So it's a double edged sword. Peer review is completely necessary, but when used politically it is dangerous.

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School i agree with you is an area where we at least need debate. Do I think a kid that isn’t flu vaccinated should be banned? Not really. Do I think a kid that isn’t vaccinated for measles, polio etc should be banned? Absolutely

100%!! That's the problem though, people being ignorantly critical of someone not getting a flu shot are pretending that a flu shot is the same thing as an MMR vaccine, and they aren't. One is very important, the other is not.

[tirebob]

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Things like nursing positions for example though. The employer has every right to set requirements like that, as for example a drilling company can require employees to take H2S alive before they can work for them., if people don’t agree with the requirements then they don’t have to work there.

School i agree with you is an area where we at least need debate. Do I think a kid that isn’t flu vaccinated should be banned? Not really. Do I think a kid that isn’t vaccinated for measles, polio etc should be banned? Absolutely

Just an interesting side note to this, I was vaccinated for measles when in high-school along with everyone else in our school, and later that year myself along with over 1/3rd of the school all went down with measles. lol! Like I says... No guarantees.

Edit - Nobody died

[J-hop]

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That's how science works though. You make a theory today based off of what we know currently. As we learn more, theories can evolve and change. It's not locked into one mindset forever that refuses to accept new information like religion for example.

There is value in peer review, as a scientist it's exactly what you want, someone in your field to review things with a different view to catch something you might have missed. Without peer review you'd just have any idiot calling himself a scientist publishing nonsense. The problem with peer review stems from having irrelevant fields review and have input. If I was a biologist, why the hell would I want to review papers on quantum theory? Yet that's exactly what happens when it comes to BS things like climate change. They have unqualified fields review anecdotal data compiled into a "study", and then try and pass it of to the public that "97% of scientists agree with human caused climate change." So it's a double edged sword. Peer review is completely necessary, but when used politically it is dangerous.

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100%!! That's the problem though, people being ignorantly critical of someone not getting a flu shot are pretending that a flu shot is the same thing as an MMR vaccine, and they aren't. One is very important, the other is not.

Now what would be your thoughts on if we could predict with 100% certainty the strain and the vaccine was 100% effective would you change your mind? If so what are your thoughts on where we draw the line between where we are now and 100% prediction/efficacy?

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Being right is more important than what's right.

That is the theme of this thread, it seems.

People laughing in the face of medical science, facts, and peer reviewed articles? If you don't believe those, what can you believe? Would you prefer the articles were not peer reviewed? It may not be 100% perfect but there is no higher standard. Now when you have dozens of the same studies coming to the same conclusion, it becomes more accepted as fact. You can't have an intelligent argument with someone who dismisses all facts and the science that backs up those facts. You'd have no better luck trying to convince someone their god didn't exist or that the earth wasn't flat.

I wonder what would happen if, say, a heart surgeon told them they needed an operation - what kind of evidence would they ask for to confirm that the surgery was necessary if medical science is not sufficient? I bet every single one of them would listen to the medical professional when trying to be right online was no longer their greatest concern.

[tonytiger55]

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Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with the logic of your posts

I am just saying that forcing people to comply and give up the right to their body regardless of the reason, no matter how noble or ideal, should never be allowed


The day we start forcing people to take the flu shot will be the same day we can start forcing people to donate blood, or justifying sacrificial "low value" people to save the lives of a dozen "high value" others, or justifying forced pregnancies to foster a master race. These might seem like extremes, but they are all from the same bag of tricks. If you start taking away peoples right to their body with legislation, only a matter of time before you slip down that slope. Better to stand on this side of the guardrail no matter how green the grass looks over there.

I totally agree we should not be forcing people.
I think we should be educating people that this is a issue of biology and our roles in how we function as a society as a whole.

Because if we start to think individually over this, then we all move in directions of complete opposite areas of thought. This is not big brother injecting you with a exotic substance. Or people taking your rights away on your body. Its nothing like that.
But it can LEAD to forced action being put on the table as a solution if we are not functioning as a whole. i.e remove non vaccinated kids from the school.

I don't like to be injected. I hate needles. I get dead arm and I get wiped out for the rest of the day. But I understand my role in society that a young person, elderly or someone with a compromised immune system is impacted. The variance of that impact might be small (we have good healthcare facilities), but when I look at where my parents came from and how their siblings died. Its not a bad trade off at all.

[A790]

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Just an interesting side note to this, I was vaccinated for measles when in high-school along with everyone else in our school, and later that year myself along with over 1/3rd of the school all went down with measles. lol! Like I says... No guarantees.

Edit - Nobody died

Interesting spike that coincides with the anti-vaxx hysteria, no?

I don't think it's essential that people get the flu shot; I do think it's essential people receive vaccinations for more serious conditions. If that's the argument you're making, I'm your huckleberry.

[austic]

Anit Vax are idiots period.

Got my flu shot, wife got hers as we have a newborn under 6 months that cant get it yet.

[tirebob]

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Interesting spike that coincides with the anti-vaxx hysteria, no?

I don't think it's essential that people get the flu shot; I do think it's essential people receive vaccinations for more serious conditions. If that's the argument you're making, I'm your huckleberry.

No not the argument I was making. Just noted I have had an experience where a specific vaccine did not work (or was the wrong vaccine or whatever). I keep having to repeat myself though it seems. I am not anti vaccine. I am indifferent to silly unnecessary vaccines like the common flu.

[Misterman]

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Now what would be your thoughts on if we could predict with 100% certainty the strain and the vaccine was 100% effective would you change your mind? If so what are your thoughts on where we draw the line between where we are now and 100% prediction/efficacy?

This is more of a political question now if you're asking about anything other than my personal choice on the matter. Personally, if I could get vaccinated once and never worry about getting the flu again, then great I'd go for it. Fact remains that my likelihood of getting the flu is already so low, that there isn't any benefits to getting the vaccine if it's something I still need to do every year and makes me feel like crap.

Not sure if you're asking in regards to my thoughts on this with the general public? I still don't care much about general public being flu vaccinated either. We have thousands of people dying unnecessarily in auto accidents every year, and we aren't doing a single damn thing from a government perspective to combat that. So why should I be worried about a few immune compromised people possibly croaking? That's a bit of what it boils down to for me, the government claims to do things like flu shots in the name of public interest. But when shareholders in a drug company are getting rich from it, and the death rate by comparison to real issues is nothing, it tells me there's probably more benefit to the powers that be trying to convince me to get that shot, then there is benefits to myself.

Bottom line is that flu isn't an issue that warrants a lot of care. So it's up to personal choice regardless of vaccine efficiency.

[A790]

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No not the argument I was making. Just noted I have had an experience where a specific vaccine did not work (or was the wrong vaccine or whatever). I keep having to repeat myself though it seems. I am not anti vaccine. I am indifferent to silly unnecessary vaccines like the common flu.

That's what I suspected you were saying but I wanted to clarify just the same. lol

[tirebob]

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That's what I suspected you were saying but I wanted to clarify just the same. lol

You're so cruel... lol

[duaner]

I got the flu shot this year because it was free, at school, where a number of kids and profs have fallen ill, or so I heard at one point. I've only gotten the shot twice in my adult life but I've also never had the flu in my adult life. I haven't even had as much as a cold in the last 2+ years.

Having said that, arguments as to people having the right to their own bodies and not having certain things forced on them, that really depends on the situation. No one should have complete bodily autonomy. Of course, this is very a slippery slope, as is most anything that legislation touches. Certainly with the "everyday" flu, there really is no reason why a vaccine should ever be forced on people. Vaccines for polio and other ills that, prior to the relevant vaccines being available killed or left maimed millions of people, are probably a good place to force the issue. Of course, one has to be pretty cold and uncaring to not want that for your kid, loved ones, or oneself.

As to people arguing to peer-reviewed literature, be careful. It is fairly far from perfect and there are quite a number of issues with that system. It is hardly as robust and scientific as scientists claim, and people think. Unfortunately, the unscientific public are at the mercy of what peer-reviewed literature can tell us, if we can even be so lucky to have access to it. That said, I would certainly lean towards reviewing the literature where possible and giving myself at least a better chance to make an informed decision.

[ExtraSlow]

For anyone who was planning to get the shot but hasn't yet, here's some more info and some statistics : https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ar-this-season

Seems like this year's vaccine is good, and the Calgary area is already seeing an outbreak.

A family member's daycare sent a note home that 15% of thier kids were suffering flu-like symptoms and staying home.

[J-hop]

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For anyone who was planning to get the shot but hasn't yet, here's some more info and some statistics : https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ar-this-season

Seems like this year's vaccine is good, and the Calgary area is already seeing an outbreak.

A family member's daycare sent a note home that 15% of thier kids were suffering flu-like symptoms and staying home.

You fake news alarmist.


Wish adults would take similar (stay at home) advice. I work with old guys that brag about not taking a sick day in 20 years. Good for you, you sit there with a box of Kleenex, snot pouring out of your face passing it on to the rest of the team and think to yourself yea that’s something I should be proud of.

[Misterman]

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You fake news alarmist.


Wish adults would take similar (stay at home) advice. I work with old guys that brag about not taking a sick day in 20 years. Good for you, you sit there with a box of Kleenex, snot pouring out of your face passing it on to the rest of the team and think to yourself yea that’s something I should be proud of.

I watched a guy get an award for 20 years of perfect attendance at work. It was a silly plaque and a 50$ Earls gift card. I was like Wow! I made that all back on my first sick day.

I'm in a position now where I don't get sick time though. So I'm that asshole that would have to come in sick and tough it out if I came down with something.

[J-hop]

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I watched a guy get an award for 20 years of perfect attendance at work. It was a silly plaque and a 50$ Earls gift card. I was like Wow! I made that all back on my first sick day.

I'm in a position now where I don't get sick time though. So I'm that asshole that would have to come in sick and tough it out if I came down with something.

Yea I wish companies would be more proactive about this kind of stuff and actually encourage people to go home when they’re sick (at the very least don’t reward people that don’t!). Even if you can function at 80% of your normal output. One person spreading a cold around the office can net you weeks worth of lost productivity. Some management just don’t comprehend that

[The_Rural_Juror]

I really need to know which big bad company is getting rich off spreading flu vaccine lies. I want to be a shareholder damn it.

[tonytiger55]

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Yea I wish companies would be more proactive about this kind of stuff and actually encourage people to go home when they’re sick (at the very least don’t reward people that don’t!). Even if you can function at 80% of your normal output. One person spreading a cold around the office can net you weeks worth of lost productivity. Some management just don’t comprehend that

When I worked in London many moons ago, my boss was like.. 'if your sick DO NOT COME IN. We don't want your shit spreading..'
If they did get sick, they would be mad at you.

[Misterman]

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Yea I wish companies would be more proactive about this kind of stuff and actually encourage people to go home when they’re sick (at the very least don’t reward people that don’t!). Even if you can function at 80% of your normal output. One person spreading a cold around the office can net you weeks worth of lost productivity. Some management just don’t comprehend that

Oh they are more than happy to encourage people to stay home when they're sick. Which is fine and dandy as an employee who gets paid. But as a contractor, you don't show up, you don't get paid.