Whats your work doing about Cannabis in terms of policies?

[CMW403]

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Im really interested in how the drug tests will work here, if they show a level of intoxication or if they just show outright that you have some level regardless of what that level is; in your system.

So am I.

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Aren't they moving to blood tests at the station if you fail the field test?

Heavy users (many times a day for years), depending on their body fat percentage and metabolites and body type etc. can build up crazy impressive levels of THC and store it in fat cells. I do not understand how these tests work scientifically so I cannot say whether or not a person like this would test inebriated on THC after stopping for two-weeks, even up to a month if driver is a chronic recreational high THC user, or if they would indeed test clean. I do know for a fact blood tests can give an exact ppm calculation of THC in one of these users blood for up to three months after stopping the use of THC, sometimes even more.

This makes me wonder where the hell the line was drawn in the sand on whether or not someone is high while driving, because that is going to depend on their tolerance to THC, not when they smoked or how they smoked it.

Someone with a high tolerance could smoke 5 minutes before he gets pulled over and he is going to act completely normal with zero effect on motor skills or social skills and get a DUI, while someone with no tolerance could have smoked four hours ago and is still experiencing visual hallucinations and complete lack of motor skills, but from what I hear as long as he smoked two hours ago or more then he is in the clear to drive on our roads.

This is a bullshit law.

[Kavy]

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So am I.

This makes me wonder where the hell the line was drawn in the sand on whether or not someone is high while driving, because that is going to depend on their tolerance to THC, not when they smoked or how they smoked it.

Someone with a high tolerance could smoke 5 minutes before he gets pulled over and he is going to act completely normal with zero effect on motor skills or social skills and get a DUI, while someone with no tolerance could have smoked four hours ago and is still experiencing visual hallucinations and complete lack of motor skills, but from what I hear as long as he smoked two hours ago or more then he is in the clear to drive on our roads.

This is a bullshit law.

So in other words it’s treated the exact same as alcohol.
I think the separation here is there was very little high functioning alcoholics arguing about the impairment laws when BAC was introduced then lowered again and again yet there is a huge amount of cannabis users who feel they should be treated different. Impairment is impairment regardless of if it comes from a huge bowl, a 2-6 of vodka or a bottle of NyQuil.

Disclaimer: I agree with legalization and hold zero resentment to anyone who smokes weed, drinks like a fish or pops pills, In my mind everyone is allowed to treat their body and mind however they see fit up until the point it endangers others/society.

[ercchry]

It’s not the same... anyone with a basic understanding of science knows this. They do not effect the same things whatsoever, problem is that most studies that are paid attention to are from the US, with the schedule 1 rating for cannabis America scientists have not been able to study these effects as the only way they are able to get permission to run a study is if it fits the propaganda machine’s vision. This is slowly changing but it will be a while

[Kavy]

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It’s not the same... anyone with a basic understanding of science knows this. They do not effect the same things whatsoever, problem is that most studies that are paid attention to are from the US, with the schedule 1 rating for cannabis America scientists have not been able to study these effects as the only way they are able to get permission to run a study is if it fits the propaganda machine’s vision. This is slowly changing but it will be a while

I know your trying to take a jab with your “anyone with a basic understanding of science knows this” comment and I can assure you I do not have a PhD and I’m not against legalization so personal attacks aren’t needed.. I wasn’t implying every form of impairment is the exact same I was saying impairment is impairment. If thats hallucinations from acid, falling asleep from NyQuil, being a bumbling idiot from drinking or anything else it’s still an impairment on your motor skills or thought processing. Lack of sleep is impairment and I’m ot saying we should lock up single mothers because they are evil human beings.

I’m just trying to illustrate that when the BAC numbers decreased everyone was up in arms but the world kept functioning. Bars stayed open, parties still happened and a few beers at the hockey game didn’t change. People know when they shouldn’t be driving and that they are impaired. There is no radar band that detects cannabis so if your driving normally because your not impaired the chances of being pulled over and tested are the same as if you have a beer with dinner and drive home which are pretty dam low. Now if your all over the road or throwing banana peels and turtle shells out the window as you drive down Deerfoot you might not be as lucky.

I agree the testing is far from where it should be but it takes more then a backwards hat to be pulled over and screened for impairment.

[ercchry]

It’s an attack more so on the government and their half assed attempt all around at this. But it’s obvious (and it’s not your fault) that the propaganda has worked... but I mean they’ve been at it for years so... again, not blaming you.

I will blame you for perpetuating it though.

Cannabis does not impair motor skills. Not sure if it was this thread or another but msommers posted a link to a study from McGill that basically concluded even after heavy dosing that motor skills are fine, and that (probably due to paranoia) participants had not even had hands down the most dangerous side effect of alcohol, an inflated sense of “skill”

[bcylau]

imho, if you can use the state of impairment as a legitimate legal defense then there should be some type of limit or restriction for operating equipment/ vehicle. there is motor skill and there is clear mind/sound judgement. by definition, you can't have a clear mind while being high.

the onus should always be on the user to regulate themselves, but our society defers that job to the government.

honestly, would you trust a pilot or a surgeon operating while there is substance in their system vs none. then again, i would trust a chronic user much more than a recreational user when it comes to weed.

[CMW403]

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It’s not the same... anyone with a basic understanding of science knows this. They do not effect the same things whatsoever, problem is that most studies that are paid attention to are from the US, with the schedule 1 rating for cannabis America scientists have not been able to study these effects as the only way they are able to get permission to run a study is if it fits the propaganda machine’s vision. This is slowly changing but it will be a while

This

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So in other words it’s treated the exact same as alcohol.

You aren't listening. Take someone has used cannabis for YEARS, every day of their lives, just like someone uses cigarettes. Sit them down in front of someone who has used Cannabis once or twice or even NEVER, and have them share a joint. Not only will the seasoned veteran smoke the absolute hell out of that joint while the newbie takes tiny little "hits", the newbie is going to walk away thinking they are on another planet while the seasoned veteran will walk away thinking, "ahh, that felt good, time to get on with my day" and hop in his truck and continue whatever he was doing beforehand (racing an F1 car, moving your money around in a mutual fund, winning back to back to back gold medals in all kinds of swimming events at the olympics), whereas the newbie is still figuring out how their car keys work.

The point is, alcohol effects everyone exactly the same. Actually to go even further, seasoned "alcohol veterans" have fucked up organs, meaning SMALL amounts of alcohol actually gets them far more fucked up then if someone who doesn't even drink came by and drank the same amount.

Do you see the problem with this cannabis testing yet? The RCMP can (and have) applied every single one of their roadside impairment tests on me 5 minutes after I had smoked a blunt the size of my finger filled with some of the highest %THC of medical marijuana that I can buy, and each time I aced every single one. I was actually told that I could recite the alphabet backwards standing on one leg with my finger on my nose faster than anyone that particular police officer had ever seen... And then they could stick one of those strips in my mouth and It would clearly show that I am nearly made of THC.

Now, heres where it is so different from alcohol...
The body is completely rid of one ounce of alcohol in under 8 hours. Zero trace that there was ever alcohol anywhere near that person, even if they are stone cold alcoholics that have been drinking a case of beer or a 26 every day for the last 10 years.

Heavy THC users will test positive (impaired) on this new roadside test. Even if they haven't smoked for 24 hours, 10 years of smoking many times a day everyday causes your body to store that THC in fat cells. Again, depending on your body type and metabolism you may test impaired even if you have not smoked for a whole week because of the THC secreted from inside your body.

The roadside saliva test results are going to be abused and fought by people charged and they will end up being medical users backed up by doctors and specialists, I believe the doctors and specialists will easily prove to any court that the saliva strips cannot be used with accuracy on high tolerance medical users, and a legal precedent will be set. Medical users are simply not impaired when they use marijuana. I am a prescribed medical user with an extremely high tolerance, I WISH that marijuana still got me "high" enough that I didn't know how to work my car keys, that shit was fun. People like me actually miss getting fucked up off a joint...

[ExtraSlow]

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imho, if you can use the state of impairment as a legitimate legal defense then there should be some type of limit or restriction for operating equipment/ vehicle. there is motor skill and there is clear mind/sound judgement. by definition, you can't have a clear mind while being high.

the onus should always be on the user to regulate themselves, but our society defers that job to the government.

honestly, would you trust a pilot or a surgeon operating while there is substance in their system vs none. then again, i would trust a chronic user much more than a recreational user when it comes to weed.

Well, we allow an amount of alcohol, and now that weed is legal, that same logic applies.

[Kavy]

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This






You aren't listening. Take someone has used cannabis for YEARS, every day of their lives, just like someone uses cigarettes. Sit them down in front of someone who has used Cannabis once or twice or even NEVER, and have them share a joint. Not only will the seasoned veteran smoke the absolute hell out of that joint while the newbie takes tiny little "hits", the newbie is going to walk away thinking they are on another planet while the seasoned veteran will walk away thinking, "ahh, that felt good, time to get on with my day" and hop in his truck and continue whatever he was doing beforehand (racing an F1 car, moving your money around in a mutual fund, winning back to back to back gold medals in all kinds of swimming events at the olympics), whereas the newbie is still figuring out how their car keys work.

The point is, alcohol effects everyone exactly the same. Actually to go even further, seasoned "alcohol veterans" have fucked up organs, meaning SMALL amounts of alcohol actually gets them far more fucked up then if someone who doesn't even drink came by and drank the same amount.

Do you see the problem with this cannabis testing yet? The RCMP can (and have) applied every single one of their roadside impairment tests on me 5 minutes after I had smoked a blunt the size of my finger filled with some of the highest %THC of medical marijuana that I can buy, and each time I aced every single one. I was actually told that I could recite the alphabet backwards standing on one leg with my finger on my nose faster than anyone that particular police officer had ever seen... And then they could stick one of those strips in my mouth and It would clearly show that I am nearly made of THC.

Now, heres where it is so different from alcohol...
The body is completely rid of one ounce of alcohol in under 8 hours. Zero trace that there was ever alcohol anywhere near that person, even if they are stone cold alcoholics that have been drinking a case of beer or a 26 every day for the last 10 years.

Heavy THC users will test positive (impaired) on this new roadside test. Even if they haven't smoked for 24 hours, 10 years of smoking many times a day everyday causes your body to store that THC in fat cells. Again, depending on your body type and metabolism you may test impaired even if you have not smoked for a whole week because of the THC secreted from inside your body.

The roadside saliva test results are going to be abused and fought by people charged and they will end up being medical users backed up by doctors and specialists, I believe the doctors and specialists will easily prove to any court that the saliva strips cannot be used with accuracy on high tolerance medical users, and a legal precedent will be set. Medical users are simply not impaired when they use marijuana. I am a prescribed medical user with an extremely high tolerance, I WISH that marijuana still got me "high" enough that I didn't know how to work my car keys, that shit was fun. People like me actually miss getting fucked up off a joint...

You realize that I wasn’t arguing right? You posted what was wrong with it and how it was being policed and I responded with “so in other words it’s treated exactly like alcohol” because your description of the impairment laws was that it is being treated exactly like alcohol in the eyes of the law. How is that not listening? I was pretty much echoing what you said.

I get it, this topic triggers you. In your post again you describe that how this is being managed is exactly how they manage alcohol. Now I know even though I am not disagreeing with you and actually agreeing with you you will still come back and argue with me about it. I’m not your enemy, I’m not against it, you are actually making the exact point why the impairment laws are as they are by saying that a newbie will be on another world and barely finding their keys. That’s why it exists. These laws aren’t created for people who are responsible they are created for those that aren’t and yes sometimes they are ridiculous, overboard, extreme and unfair to some of the population but that has always been the case.

[JordanEG6]

Policies remain the same. We can't consume or possess cannabis while at work.
No policies on "off-work" consumption. The majority of people I work with know I'm a daily consumer anyway.

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You aren't listening. Take someone has used cannabis for YEARS, every day of their lives, just like someone uses cigarettes. Sit them down in front of someone who has used Cannabis once or twice or even NEVER, and have them share a joint. Not only will the seasoned veteran smoke the absolute hell out of that joint while the newbie takes tiny little "hits", the newbie is going to walk away thinking they are on another planet while the seasoned veteran will walk away thinking, "ahh, that felt good, time to get on with my day" and hop in his truck and continue whatever he was doing beforehand (racing an F1 car, moving your money around in a mutual fund, winning back to back to back gold medals in all kinds of swimming events at the olympics), whereas the newbie is still figuring out how their car keys work.

The point is, alcohol effects everyone exactly the same. Actually to go even further, seasoned "alcohol veterans" have fucked up organs, meaning SMALL amounts of alcohol actually gets them far more fucked up then if someone who doesn't even drink came by and drank the same amount.

Do you see the problem with this cannabis testing yet? The RCMP can (and have) applied every single one of their roadside impairment tests on me 5 minutes after I had smoked a blunt the size of my finger filled with some of the highest %THC of medical marijuana that I can buy, and each time I aced every single one. I was actually told that I could recite the alphabet backwards standing on one leg with my finger on my nose faster than anyone that particular police officer had ever seen... And then they could stick one of those strips in my mouth and It would clearly show that I am nearly made of THC.

Now, heres where it is so different from alcohol...
The body is completely rid of one ounce of alcohol in under 8 hours. Zero trace that there was ever alcohol anywhere near that person, even if they are stone cold alcoholics that have been drinking a case of beer or a 26 every day for the last 10 years.

Heavy THC users will test positive (impaired) on this new roadside test. Even if they haven't smoked for 24 hours, 10 years of smoking many times a day everyday causes your body to store that THC in fat cells. Again, depending on your body type and metabolism you may test impaired even if you have not smoked for a whole week because of the THC secreted from inside your body.

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It’s an attack more so on the government and their half assed attempt all around at this. But it’s obvious (and it’s not your fault) that the propaganda has worked... but I mean they’ve been at it for years so... again, not blaming you.

I will blame you for perpetuating it though.

Cannabis does not impair motor skills. Not sure if it was this thread or another but msommers posted a link to a study from McGill that basically concluded even after heavy dosing that motor skills are fine, and that (probably due to paranoia) participants had not even had hands down the most dangerous side effect of alcohol, an inflated sense of “skill”

These are on point. Unless it's your first time or one of the first times using cannabis, it doesn't impair your motor skills or gives you the inflated sense of skill or awareness.

More so, there are certainly times where I am too high to drive (like an edible or something) and those times, I simply won't. Unlike alcohol, I am self aware of the implications driving while I'm totally blasted. But in general, I have no problem running errands or carrying on with my day on cannabis, and this includes driving. Impairment isn't the same across the board and can't be measured accurately. You can have the same amount of THC in your system as the next guy, but the effects vary from user to user based on tolerance, experience, strain and even method of consuming.

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I am a prescribed medical user with an extremely high tolerance, I WISH that marijuana still got me "high" enough that I didn't know how to work my car keys, that shit was fun. People like me actually miss getting fucked up off a joint...

Also this haha.
I miss my noob days. I will though, take a break for a week or two to get my tolerance down and then toke on a lazy afternoon if I have nothing else to do that day.

[R-Audi]

Id consider myself a light user (typically edibles or CBD based items for use instead of advil etc) but definitely notice slower reaction times when participating in sports etc while using. (Goalie in Hockey) That being said, I also notice similar delays with things like Robaxacet or extra strength advil, and can only take half the recommended dosage of NyQuil or else Im foggy for the entire morning.

[msommers]

There's a lot of bro-science surrounding pot -- in time that will change.

[ercchry]

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There's a lot of "wont you think of the children"-science surrounding pot -- in time that will change.

fixed

[msommers]

Research has just scratched the surface surrounding pot, benefits and side-effects alike (short- and certainly not long-term). There is no denying this.

[ercchry]

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Research has just scratched the surface surrounding pot, benefits and side-effects alike (short- and certainly not long-term). There is no denying this.

of course, but also other countries are slightly ahead of the curve. But it seems like the more they research, the more complex this becomes... which is what makes the current enforcement laws even more half assed

[msommers]

Yes places like Israel are certainly ahead of anywhere in North America but even their own have been quoted as saying "we've only scratched the surface."

@CMW403 This is what I had in mind w.r.t. the mention of blood samples to be taken.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4544661/...-legalization/

[HiTempguy1]

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I will blame you for perpetuating it though.

Cannabis does not impair motor skills.

Because you aren't perpetuating BS?

Maybe it is the same study, but there is another one that says basically for SIMPLE tasks it doesn't. But once anything gets complex, the ability to handle it is drastically reduced.

Driving a car is a pretty simple task... Until it isn't. Same with a lot of things. It certainly impairs your ability to drive. Keep trying though

Edit-
As for that post by CMW403... Holy crap, I guess we found the pot evangelizer on the board Nothing that you stated about alcohol is remotely true, and any argument you've made for weed can be directly applied to alcohol (not everyone is affected the same, different tolerances, different effects etc etc).

Jesus

[ercchry]

Driving is muscle memory... not an algebra test. Just look at top level athletes that indulge during competition

...I even know people in the Motorsports realm winning events while “high”

[Tik-Tok]

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Driving is muscle memory... not an algebra test. Just look at top level athletes that indulge during competition

...I even know people in the Motorsports realm winning events while “high”

Driving is muscle memory, paying attention to other drivers isn't. Also having to do an emergency manuevre isn't in most people's muscle memory.

[killramos]

People always find a way to justify doing whatever the fuck they want, no matter the mental gymnastics.

As for work, we just copy pasta’d enforms guidelines for upstream petroleum. No bringing dope to work and no being high on site. Seems reasonable.