Right of way question

[Disoblige]

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Theoretically, yes, both vehicles could turn at the same time. Practically though, if I am the person turning left, I don't risk it and will wait the couple seconds for the person turning right to finish their turn before I proceed just to avoid a collision because they don't turn into the proper lane.

Yes, but let's not talk about practical for a second and just on actual rules. Of course I agree you want to be defensive. But you agree that both could turn at the same time, because rules say you shouldn't be crossing lanes wide when turning.

So how is it different in this scenario? This is a 2 lane road. If construction is defined as an "obstruction", the person turning right has to yield. If a parked car was there, the rule book specifically states the person turning right yields. The debate is on whether or not construction changes this into one lane or not. This is not completely clear.

[ercchry]

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Yes, but let's not talk about defensive driving vs. actual rules. Of course I agree you want to be defensive. But you agree that both could turn at the same time, because rules say you shouldn't be crossing lanes wide when turning.

So how is it different in this scenario? This is a 2 lane road. If construction is defined as an "obstruction", the person turning right has to yield. If a parked car was there, the rule book specifically states the person turning right yields. The debate is on whether or not construction changes this into one lane or not. This is not completely clear.

I already answered this... because you never know what signage the person turning right has



I have been hit at enough intersections to tell you without a doubt the only thing cops and insurance will try to establish when placing blame is “were you turning left?”

[Disoblige]

^^ That photo is a poor example though. There is no cars turning left that could hit someone turning right; it's a one way.

On a sidenote, in that example you could even turn right into the outside lane (left side) on a red light. Some people don't know that.

[ercchry]

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^^ That photo is a poor example though. There is no cars turning left that could hit someone turning right; it's a one way.

On a sidenote, in that example you could even turn right into the outside lane (left side) on a red light. Some people don't know that.

the point still holds... you just dont know what signage an oncoming vehicle has, being close to construction... i wouldnt trust anything sign relating making sense. but again, it doesnt matter as we have already established in our society that turning left means you have no rights. you yield to everything

EDIT: and further to this establishing blame... the last time i got hit i was driving straight through a green light, car that had the red decided to turn right (same road and direction i was heading) in front of me... left lane was clear so i changed lanes mid-intersection to avoid them.. they kept going and hit me anyways cause of double lane turn. what was the ticket they got? failure to come to a stop at a red... then i had to fight to make sure i wasnt at fault as their insurance co tried to argue that they were fully established in their lane and i rear ended them

[Disoblige]

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the point still holds... you just dont know what signage an oncoming vehicle has, being close to construction... i wouldnt trust anything sign relating making sense. but again, it doesnt matter as we have already established in our society that turning left means you have no rights. you yield to everything

But why are you ignoring what the handbook says though? msommers posted it. Instead of guessing, the rule book specifically mentioned obstructions to the road and how to deal with it. I don't want to repeat it again so I will just stop there.

Here is what I know for certain:
- I have seen construction signs telling cars to STOP on right hand turns in scenarios similar to this
- I have NEVER seen a construction sign indicating to treat the lane as 1 lane if it used to be 2. That would be absolute chaotic, as most would agree.

I guess in the end, we agree to disagree

[ercchry]

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But why are you ignoring what the handbook says though? msommers posted it. Instead of guessing, the rule book specifically mentioned obstructions to the road and how to deal with it. I don't want to repeat it again so I won't.

I guess in the end, we agree to disagree

because i already responded to that... lane establishment would need to happen first, cause prior to that you are mid left turn... which means you yield

[tonytiger55]

I think car B has right of way. Car A should be paying attention to its surroundings.

Another way to look at it is if your turning right on a normal road and you have a car coming from the left and its on the outerlane. Does one just barge into their lane as you are turning right?

But if we go by the scenario Ercchry says. Then based on my expertise of watching F1 racing. I would say its a racing incident.

[colinxx235]

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I think car B has right of way. Car A should be paying attention to its surroundings.

Another way to look at it is if your turning right on a normal road and you have a car coming from the left and its on the outerlane. Does one just barge into their lane as you are turning right?

But if we go by the scenario Ercchry says. Then based on my expertise of watching F1 racing. I would say its a racing incident.

Find me a 2+2 road in Calgary that is completed uncontrolled to apply your theory of yielding to the right in a non sensible manner.

As for paying attention to the surroundings, I've competently argued that I'm aware and based upon the language in the book should be in the RoW. The argument of poor drivers taking wide turns or not being aware of the rules shouldn't be included. Yes I am aware and defensive hence not having an accident.

And yes, without a dashcam or witness it will be tough to argue with insurance if hit while making a left hand turn because the other driver will more than likely lie and say they were going straight and you cut them off.

But last night looking at the intersection a car could most definitely fit in the lane behind the orange barriers before moving to the inside lane. Zero signage stating anything about yielding or that would alter road patterns from the norm. Funny enough I almost watched 2 guys slam into each other this morning @ 645. The guy on the other side of the road saw the car turning left and gunned it to make sure he couldn't go #yycitsmylanespeedup

[tonytiger55]

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Find me a 2+2 road in Calgary that is completed uncontrolled to apply your theory of yielding to the right in a non sensible manner.

As for paying attention to the surroundings, I've competently argued that I'm aware and based upon the language in the book should be in the RoW. The argument of poor drivers taking wide turns or not being aware of the rules shouldn't be included. Yes I am aware and defensive hence not having an accident.

And yes, without a dashcam or witness it will be tough to argue with insurance if hit while making a left hand turn because the other driver will more than likely lie and say they were going straight and you cut them off.

But last night looking at the intersection a car could most definitely fit in the lane behind the orange barriers before moving to the inside lane. Zero signage stating anything about yielding or that would alter road patterns from the norm. Funny enough I almost watched 2 guys slam into each other this morning @ 645. The guy on the other side of the road saw the car turning left and gunned it to make sure he couldn't go #yycitsmylanespeedup

Sorry I got the letters mixed up. I meant Car A has right of way.

[cloud7]

Coming from my background as a traffic engineer, Car B has the priority over Car A. This is the position I would take if I were ever called as an expert witness. It does not matter how many receiving lanes there are, Car A has to yield to Car B in order to make the turn safely. If Car B suddenly decides to go straight, Car A would be in the path of Car B. On the road, you often see Car A turning left at the same time as Car B, but it is done so at Car A's risk.

[ercchry]

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Coming from my background as a traffic engineer, Car B has the priority over Car A. This is the position I would take if I were ever called as an expert witness. It does not matter how many receiving lanes there are, Car A has to yield to Car B in order to make the turn safely. If Car B suddenly decides to go straight, Car A would be in the path of Car B. On the road, you often see Car A turning left at the same time as Car B, but it is done so at Car A's risk.

Thank you! It’s a sad day when you realize even a site of “enthusiasts” don’t know how to drive either

[msommers]

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Coming from my background as a traffic engineer, Car B has the priority over Car A. This is the position I would take if I were ever called as an expert witness. It does not matter how many receiving lanes there are, Car A has to yield to Car B in order to make the turn safely. If Car B suddenly decides to go straight, Car A would be in the path of Car B. On the road, you often see Car A turning left at the same time as Car B, but it is done so at Car A's risk.

So crossing traffic = bad.

Make sure to tell Disoblige

[jabjab]

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Find me a 2+2 road in Calgary that is completed uncontrolled to apply your theory of yielding to the right in a non sensible manner.

As for paying attention to the surroundings, I've competently argued that I'm aware and based upon the language in the book should be in the RoW. The argument of poor drivers taking wide turns or not being aware of the rules shouldn't be included. Yes I am aware and defensive hence not having an accident.

And yes, without a dashcam or witness it will be tough to argue with insurance if hit while making a left hand turn because the other driver will more than likely lie and say they were going straight and you cut them off.

But last night looking at the intersection a car could most definitely fit in the lane behind the orange barriers before moving to the inside lane. Zero signage stating anything about yielding or that would alter road patterns from the norm. Funny enough I almost watched 2 guys slam into each other this morning @ 645. The guy on the other side of the road saw the car turning left and gunned it to make sure he couldn't go #yycitsmylanespeedup

get a faster car , seems like you don't know how to drive.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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get a faster car , seems like you don't know how to drive.

Probably slows down to make lane changes and everything.

[jabjab]

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Probably slows down to make lane changes and everything.

you're just as dumb as this guy. Maybe i should not brake when other cars brake ahead of me causing an accident. Dumb piece of shit

[Stuart]

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you're just as dumb as this guy. Maybe i should not brake when other cars brake ahead of me causing an accident. Dumb piece of shit

Is this paper tiger going to show up everywhere showing off his lack of self control?

[ExtraSlow]

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get a faster car , seems like you don't know how to drive.

Did you just bump a ten month old thread for that?

[Disoblige]

I e-mailed a transportation contact I know that works for the Government of Alberta on this question, so hopefully we get an answer on this officially as the handbook doesn't talk about it specifically.

I still don't agree with ercchry on this, but I do agree that insurance might try to put the blame on the person turning left. It doesn't make it right because we know how insurance companies are.

[revelations]

Its essentially a 1 lane road that the left-turn motorist is turning into. In that case, the right hand-turning motorist has the RoW to my knowledge.

It also depends on WHERE the road closure begins - if its RIGHT AT THE CURB, it becomes a 1 lane road.

If it starts a few car lengths down, then its a 2 lane and the person coming from the right must treat it the same as lane ending situation (they yield).

[killramos]

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Did you just bump a ten month old thread for that?

Someone must have cancelled the kids Xbox live subscription.