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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    If you just want a small-ish screen that looks good for general use it would be fine.
    75" is small-ish?

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    Might have been mentioned here before but has anyone added bias lighting behind their TV? Did you notice a difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    75" is small-ish?
    Yup - for similar money to these bigger TV's you could have 100+" and a picture that is at least as good if you go the projector route. The problem is most people don't have rooms to accommodate it. Unless you're sitting 6-7 feet away from a 75" TV it looks small and doesn't even cover your peripheral vision. I sit about 10 feet away from a 65" in my living room and it looks plain small - I can't fit a bigger one above the fireplace or I would have. You can buy a decent quality fixed frame 4K-ready 120" screen for $350 and there are lots of awesome projectors that don't break the bank. If you can't control the light though it doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7boi View Post
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    Might have been mentioned here before but has anyone added bias lighting behind their TV? Did you notice a difference?
    It's popular in the projector world and I am not a fan personally. It's more of a gimmick for aesthetics in my opinion, but it's subjective of course. Some people love it.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-07-2020 at 04:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    I sit about 10 feet away from a 65" in my living room and it looks plain small ...
    I think most people don't share this opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Yup - for similar money to these bigger TV's you could have 100+" and a picture that is at least as good if you go the projector route. The problem is most people don't have rooms to accommodate it. Unless you're sitting 6-7 feet away from a 75" TV it looks small and doesn't even cover your peripheral vision. I sit about 10 feet away from a 65" in my living room and it looks plain small - I can't fit a bigger one above the fireplace or I would have. You can buy a decent quality fixed frame 4K-ready 120" screen for $350 and there are lots of awesome projectors that don't break the bank. If you can't control the light though it doesn't work.
    ah ok, you mean compared to projector setups. Never looked into that realm. So you're saying that you can get a 120" screen for $350 and a 4k capable projector for $650ish and it would be equivalent picture quality of this 75" tv?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    ah ok, you mean compared to projector setups. Never looked into that realm. So you're saying that you can get a 120" screen for $350 and a 4k capable projector for $650ish and it would be equivalent picture quality of this 75" tv?
    Yes, sorry I guess I didn't make that clear.

    You'd have to spend a bit more on the projector but not too much, yeah. And then you get 120" (or whatever you want) instead of 65-75". You could do 1080P at $650 but not 4K. The price increase is tiny compared to the screen size increase though. A 100" TV costs like $90K haha.

    The whole setup would definitely be cheaper than a good 75-85" TV and probably look better to 95% of people due to the size. HDR on projectors is not as good as a full-array back-lit TV or OLED because it has a universal light source, but it's close, and when your screen has 2-3 times the area, you aren't sitting there wishing you had slightly better HDR performance. That's been my experience anyway.

    Elite and SilverTicket make great screens for really cheap and they sell them on Amazon. You can spend $20K on a screen if you want (power masking aspect ratios) but that is as dumb as buying a $90K TV haha. A good, standard, fixed frame Screen is really cheap.

    I think a lot of people don't understand how good projectors are these days so they don't consider them, OR they don't have a dedicated room where they can control the light in so it's a non-starter.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-07-2020 at 05:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    I think a lot of people don't understand how good projectors are these days so they don't consider them
    yup this is me. how much does a decent 4K HDR projector cost these days?

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    I've always wondered. I moved into a house with a projector and 120" screen and I do believe the projector is 4-6 years old (some epson model), but I still feel it pumps out a better picture than I see on a lot of TVs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    yup this is me. how much does a decent 4K HDR projector cost these days?
    Roughly speaking off the top of my head:

    Entry level: ~$1300
    Really good (for the average viewer): ~$2000-2200
    Extremely good (enthusiast level): ~$4500
    Insane refurb deal on last year's high end: $1497
    8K pixel shifters and laser projectors: $10K+

    You can easily pay $10-20K+ for a projector too, that industry is no better than the rest of them for taking advantage of people with lots of money haha. The point of diminishing return is really low in the projector world, which is good for the consumer.

    Screen: $350-750 depending on brand/size - no reason to spend much more than that. I have a very good 112" screen (8 feet wide) getting installed soon and it will cost me $693 for reference. Screens for half that price are also fine for most people. Markup on screens is usually at least 100% so it's easy to get something near cost if you know where to go.

    Good 85" TV: ~$8K - $20K depending on model
    Cheap 82" TV: $2,500
    98" TV: $92K-100K

    The price jump from a good 85" to a 98" TV is $80K haha. The price difference between a 90, 100, 110, 120", etc. screen is like $20.

    Obviously two very different styles, but if you have the room for it, I think anyone that actually sees what a projector can do with a screen 2-3 times the size of your average TV would choose that 9 times out of 10.

    If you do actually decide to go this route let me know and I can get into the details as it's not as simple as buying a TV and hanging it on the wall.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-07-2020 at 06:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lasimmon View Post
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    I've always wondered. I moved into a house with a projector and 120" screen and I do believe the projector is 4-6 years old (some epson model), but I still feel it pumps out a better picture than I see on a lot of TVs.
    A good 1080P projector will look amazing still - in fact I bet most people would rather watch 120" 1080P movie than a 65" 4K movie just for the theater experience. Epson is the king of bang for the buck in the projector world, by a pretty big margin. I'm guessing you have something like a 6500UB or an 8350UB - great units if that's the case, but they have come a long way since. Something like a 4010/4050 would be a really good 4K/HDR upgrade for you I suspect and not break the bank. Most decent projectors are going to put out a better picture than all but the best TV's until you get into the nitty gritty of HDR (and if your room is appropriate).
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-07-2020 at 06:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7boi View Post
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    Might have been mentioned here before but has anyone added bias lighting behind their TV? Did you notice a difference?
    I have the hue play. What it mainly does it light up the back showing how messy my cabling is in the tv stand and behind the TV. So if your setup is clean then it would look pretty nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7boi View Post
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    Might have been mentioned here before but has anyone added bias lighting behind their TV? Did you notice a difference?
    I have bias lighting on every single TV. Great way to deepen blacks and colours. Bias lighting needs to be around 6000k (or whatever temperature your white is on the tv), coloured lighting does nothing for improving the viewing experience.

    This picture shows how bias lighting can improve blacks. The bar is the same Color
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    Last edited by Kavy; 01-07-2020 at 07:54 PM.
    E .· ` ' / ·. F
    Your tears fuel me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    A good 1080P projector will look amazing still - in fact I bet most people would rather watch 120" 1080P movie than a 65" 4K movie just for the theater experience. Epson is the king of bang for the buck in the projector world, by a pretty big margin. I'm guessing you have something like a 6500UB or an 8350UB - great units if that's the case, but they have come a long way since. Something like a 4010/4050 would be a really good 4K/HDR upgrade for you I suspect and not break the bank. Most decent projectors are going to put out a better picture than all but the best TV's until you get into the nitty gritty of HDR (and if your room is appropriate).
    I've thought about upgrading, but I think I am going to wait a bit as the bulb might go soon.. Then I can really make a decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schocker View Post
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    I have the hue play. What it mainly does it light up the back showing how messy my cabling is in the tv stand and behind the TV. So if your setup is clean then it would look pretty nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavy View Post
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    I have bias lighting on every single TV. Great way to deepen blacks and colours. Bias lighting needs to be around 6000k (or whatever temperature your white is on the tv), coloured lighting does nothing for improving the viewing experience.
    Thanks guys, I did some light reading on bias lighting as well, not complex at all so I'll try to grab a cheap kit off Amazon and give it a whirl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lasimmon View Post
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    I've thought about upgrading, but I think I am going to wait a bit as the bulb might go soon.. Then I can really make a decision.
    Just a caution on the bulb - don't run them down to zero. If it tells you to replace it, replace it - they can explode if they get used into the ground (I have witnessed it), and it can wreck your projector, as well as send tiny glass shards and mercury all over your room. If you've noticed it just isn't as bright as it once was though, you're probably OK for a bit. If it's telling you to replace it though, I'd replace it (or get the new PJ if that is the plan).

    If you buy another Epson, the XX50 series (4050, 6050) come with an extra bulb, extra warranty, a $250 mount, cable guides, are black in color, and are binned from the assembly line (I.e. the cream of the crop) for an extremely reasonable premium. It's worth it just for the spare bulb, so the rest is a bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7boi View Post
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    Thanks guys, I did some light reading on bias lighting as well, not complex at all so I'll try to grab a cheap kit off Amazon and give it a whirl.
    You may not find any perceived increase in contrast - I personally don't. What it does is light up your room more, reducing contrast in some cases, like if you have light colored walls/ceiling, and making everything in an otherwise dark room visible again (furniture, etc.), which some may find distracting to the on-screen content. Just make sure you can return it as it's not for everyone. You'll notice professional theaters don't typically use this either. It looks cool though, and as with much of the HT world it's subjective.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-09-2020 at 10:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Just a caution on the bulb - don't run them down to zero. If it tells you to replace it, replace it - they can explode if they get used into the ground (I have witnessed it), and it can wreck your projector, as well as send tiny glass shards and mercury all over your room. If you've noticed it just isn't as bright as it once was though, you're probably OK for a bit. If it's telling you to replace it though, I'd replace it (or get the new PJ if that is the plan).

    If you buy another Epson, the XX50 series (4050, 6050) come with an extra bulb, extra warranty, a $250 mount, cable guides, are black in color, and are binned from the assembly line (I.e. the cream of the crop) for an extremely reasonable premium. It's worth it just for the spare bulb, so the rest is a bonus.
    Good to know thanks! I haven't seen a warning or anything yet I just suspect I will soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Roughly speaking off the top of my head:

    Entry level: ~$1300
    Really good (for the average viewer): ~$2000-2200
    Extremely good (enthusiast level): ~$4500
    Insane refurb deal on last year's high end: $1497
    8K pixel shifters and laser projectors: $10K+

    You can easily pay $10-20K+ for a projector too, that industry is no better than the rest of them for taking advantage of people with lots of money haha. The point of diminishing return is really low in the projector world, which is good for the consumer.

    Screen: $350-750 depending on brand/size - no reason to spend much more than that. I have a very good 112" screen (8 feet wide) getting installed soon and it will cost me $693 for reference. Screens for half that price are also fine for most people. Markup on screens is usually at least 100% so it's easy to get something near cost if you know where to go.

    Good 85" TV: ~$8K - $20K depending on model
    Cheap 82" TV: $2,500
    98" TV: $92K-100K

    The price jump from a good 85" to a 98" TV is $80K haha. The price difference between a 90, 100, 110, 120", etc. screen is like $20.

    Obviously two very different styles, but if you have the room for it, I think anyone that actually sees what a projector can do with a screen 2-3 times the size of your average TV would choose that 9 times out of 10.

    If you do actually decide to go this route let me know and I can get into the details as it's not as simple as buying a TV and hanging it on the wall.
    What's you take on those short throw laser projectors that seems like only Dell and Chinese are pushing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    What's you take on those short throw laser projectors that seems like only Dell and Chinese are pushing?
    They're not as good as traditional projectors (at the moment anyway) and they are pretty expensive (start around $3K+ for 4K). They also work best with specific ambient light rejecting screens which are expensive. The laser light source is not replaceable but it's good for around 15,000-20,000 hours which is about 2.3 years of 24/7 viewing (or ~40hrs a week for 10 years), so most people would replace the projector before the light engine died, but once it dies, it's done for good. It's kind of like buying a TV in that regard - when it's done it's done. Laser light sources also don't lose brightness over time in the same way that a traditional lamp does, and it has less color shift over time. They also run cooler too and have instant on/off. A traditional lamp based projector can theoretically run forever as long as you keep buying lamps, but you'll always have to pay for them. Bulbs are pretty cheap nowadays though for mainstream projectors, usually around $150-200 for 6000 hours or so, and some projectors (like the Epsons) are so bright you can run them in Eco or Medium mode and they are still brighter than much of the competition, while getting a few thousand extra hours out of the bulb. Calgary's altitude is hard on bulbs though, you will never reach manufacturer spec here.

    Traditional projectors typically are brighter (there are exceptions here though) and you can use any screen size - the short throw laser projectors are much more limited in screen size and usually are designed for ~100" screens.

    One nice thing about the short throw projectors is that you won't block the light stream when you stand up to get a snack or whatever in your theater, and you don't have to run power and HDMI to your roof. They also make better TV replacements for brighter rooms if you want to go huge but don't have great control over the light - but that also requires an expensive ambient light rejecting screen. You can use ALR screens with traditional projectors too, it's just more complicated as they need to be designed for a very specific usage scenario.

    They're kind of in their infancy right now and they're overpriced IMO - I wouldn't buy one yet personally, but they aren't bad products. The projector world is kind of funny with regards to how fast technology gets cheaper - I remember back when 1080P was becoming the standard (after 720P) and there were $650 BENQ projectors that could blow the doors off of a $120,000 Runco projector haha (though Runco was always grossly overpriced and totally unnecessary). And now we have good 4K projectors for $3-4K that are better than the $30-40K 1080P projectors of not that long ago.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-09-2020 at 03:20 PM.

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    yeah, the projector world sees very expensive tech move downmarket faster than another other technology segment, i think.

    i havent tested those short throw projectors, but i imagine they see some compromises on the optics, with the "far side" of the screen being more difficult to focus, etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    yeah, the projector world sees very expensive tech move downmarket faster than another other technology segment, i think.

    i havent tested those short throw projectors, but i imagine they see some compromises on the optics, with the "far side" of the screen being more difficult to focus, etc?
    They are actually pretty good in that regard - it's not as good as a regular projector but still good, and if you watch letterbox/2.40:1 content it wouldn't be an issue at all. The principles aren't much different than traditional projector with extremely flexible throw/lens shift. The optics are designed specifically for the short throw, so they can get it right (or close enough). Like I said though, I still prefer traditional projectors, at least at this juncture.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-10-2020 at 11:18 AM.

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