Has your office / company laid people off or are you expecting layoffs? PART 8

[dirtsniffer]

A difficult market is actually a reason to get a larger severance. One of the applicable factors is how long it will take you to find comparable employment.

[ExtraSlow]

Not layoffs, but reductions anyway

[importracer]

Is it worth having a severance package looked at for an objective point of view if you subjectively think it is OK?

What is typical cost for this service?
Would this reflect poorly for future job prospects if using that employer as reference in the future? Essentially would not want to burn any bridges.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it worth having a severance package looked at for an objective point of view if you subjectively think it is OK?

What is typical cost for this service?
Would this reflect poorly for future job prospects if using that employer as reference in the future? Essentially would not want to burn any bridges.

I wasn't aware you could negotiate severance since they hold all the power - if you piss them off they can just pay you the legal minimum (assuming they've offered you something more to begin with) and I don't think there is anything you can do about it. Hopefully I am wrong though and I'm sorry to hear you are in that situation.

Presumably your reference would be your boss rather than the HR person you would likely be arguing with over severance, so hopefully it wouldn't negatively impact you. Hard to blame someone for trying to get more money when being laid off.

A friend of mine was recently laid off, another company bought the assets and but not the staff, so he got zero severance after 15 years service.

[lasimmon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A difficult market is actually a reason to get a larger severance. One of the applicable factors is how long it will take you to find comparable employment.

In a dream world. Not a real world. Talk to an employment lawyer.

6-8 months to get a couple more weeks maybe and pay a lawyer a ton isn’t worth it. Oh and you won’t get any money till it’s settled. Oh and if you do get another job suddenly you basically get no severance. Oh and now CERB is available. That’s a factor.

Common law from a year or 2 ago basically has no impact anymore.

[bjstare]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In a dream world. Not a real world. Talk to an employment lawyer.

6-8 months to get a couple more weeks maybe and pay a lawyer a ton isn’t worth it. Oh and you won’t get any money till it’s settled. Oh and if you do get another job suddenly you basically get no severance. Oh and now CERB is available. That’s a factor.

Common law from a year or 2 ago basically has no impact anymore.

This post is pretty on point (and has been applicable for quite some time). If a large company lets you go and gives you the mandated minimum, it can be very tough to get more money out of them. Not to mention, there are often clauses in the offer letter/employment agreement where an employee agrees to a certain severance structure the moment they start with the company.

dirtsniffer is armchair QB'ing pretty hard here. Just because the book says something in school, doesn't make it true in real life.

[Disoblige]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This post is pretty on point (and has been applicable for quite some time). If a large company lets you go and gives you the mandated minimum, it can be very tough to get more money out of them. Not to mention, there are often clauses in the offer letter/employment agreement where an employee agrees to a certain severance structure the moment they start with the company.

dirtsniffer is armchair QB'ing pretty hard here. Just because the book says something in school, doesn't make it true in real life.

Ya I was going to say, real world stuff totally different than dreamland. Best to understand what you signed in the first place when hired so you don't get caught with your pants down later.

But there is no harm is taking 24-48 hours to go through the package so you understand it.

If a company offered me ~1 month per year of service, that's enough to keep my mouth shut.

[schurchill39]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it worth having a severance package looked at for an objective point of view if you subjectively think it is OK?

What is typical cost for this service?
Would this reflect poorly for future job prospects if using that employer as reference in the future? Essentially would not want to burn any bridges.

Its always worth having a lawyer review it for a piece of mind. Worst case scenario they tell you its fair then you can sign it without any "what-ifs". Most of the people I know who have been laid off have told me that their bosses told them to have a lawyer look over the package before signing it, and the few guys I know who have had to do lay offs have all told me they tell their people to have someone review it. I can't see anyone holding that against you for future jobs as you're now negotiating with the company/HR and not the boss. From my friends who have gone through that process all of them said it was around $500 for the review and an initial letter to the employer if required but don't quote me on that.

The downside is that as soon as you start the negotiation aspect everything stops until you reach a deal. I had a friend who was fucked royally by his company and they purposefully delayed all of their replies to him to drag it out. It took almost 3 months to come up with a deal that was about 70% of what industry average was for his position and tenure (he was originally offered 10% of industry average) He was still very good friends with his boss who was encouraging him to get a lawyer involved from the second he had to give him the slip.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I wasn't aware you could negotiate severance since they hold all the power - if you piss them off they can just pay you the legal minimum (assuming they've offered you something more to begin with) and I don't think there is anything you can do about it. Hopefully I am wrong though and I'm sorry to hear you are in that situation.

Presumably your reference would be your boss rather than the HR person you would likely be arguing with over severance, so hopefully it wouldn't negatively impact you. Hard to blame someone for trying to get more money when being laid off.

A friend of mine was recently laid off, another company bought the assets and but not the staff, so he got zero severance after 15 years service.

You definitely can try to negotiate severance however you have to be prepared to get "nah, we think this is fair. Take it or sue us". As far as I know they can't reneg it and give you less because you saw a lawyer. I know a ton of people who had lawyers involved and none of them ever had the original offer rescinded for a lesser one. But thats just anecdotal I suppose.

I didn't think what you said happened to your friend but apparently it is as long as the purchasing company tells the employees ahead of time that they will not keep their employment.

This implied term may be negated by an express term to the contrary. In other words, the purchasing employer may, at his option, advise the employees that he does not intend to give them credit for past services to the vendor. If this is done, the employees have the option of entering into the new contract of employment on these terms or of declining to work for the purchasing company and suing the vendor for wrongful dismissal and damages in lieu of notice.
- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hearing Encana this morning, no numbers.

I heard 700 total. 200 from Canada and 500 from the states.

[dirtsniffer]

I am for sure not an expert, most of my information comes from an hr professional that has packaged out dozens of people.

But case law from 2 years ago is still valid as courts reference case law from 100 years ago and things have changed a ton since then.

Yes your original agreement matters, you should definitely know what you signed. Yes, if you dont take the deal they can drag it out for a long time. Yes, finding other work is a risk but so is accepting to be paid out over time instead of lump sum.

I dont have any information on what implications cerb has, but it hasnt been tested in court for sure. I think cerb is about the same amount as ei, which the employee would have access to regardless.

Anyways I think we are all on the same page here and that you should have any potential package reviewed by a qualified professional. A difference of a few weeks pay is probably not worth it, but when there is a divide of tens of thousands of dollars it's worth the effort.

Legislated minimums are well below what is legally required for severance to the average beyonder.

[CaptainReboot]

Repsol did some layoffs over the last month. About 11 in various business functions a few weeks ago and 6 in IT last week. I was one of the ones in IT. Been there 12 years, so it was 12 months worth of salary, plus money for benefits that I lose and my 2020 bonus, which was the average of the last two years of variable pay I received. Also got about 3 weeks of vacation paid out. Shit timing but overall pretty happy with what I received. Talisman was very generous in their packages so I'm glad this retained when they were took over by Repsol.

[sabad66]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Repsol did some layoffs over the last month. About 11 in various business functions a few weeks ago and 6 in IT last week. I was one of the ones in IT. Been there 12 years, so it was 12 months worth of salary, plus money for benefits that I lose and my 2020 bonus, which was the average of the last two years of variable pay I received. Also got about 3 weeks of vacation paid out. Shit timing but overall pretty happy with what I received. Talisman was very generous in their packages so I'm glad this retained when they were took over by Repsol.

Wow that's a pretty amazing severance. Shitty deal to get laid off but if you can find something else pretty quick i think you made out pretty good with a severance like that.

[ExtraSlow]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Repsol did some layoffs over the last month. About 11 in various business functions a few weeks ago and 6 in IT last week. I was one of the ones in IT. Been there 12 years, so it was 12 months worth of salary, plus money for benefits that I lose and my 2020 bonus, which was the average of the last two years of variable pay I received. Also got about 3 weeks of vacation paid out. Shit timing but overall pretty happy with what I received. Talisman was very generous in their packages so I'm glad this retained when they were took over by Repsol.

Yep, that's amazing compared to anything I've heard of recently.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I didn't think what you said happened to your friend but apparently it is as long as the purchasing company tells the employees ahead of time that they will not keep their employment.

Yeah he got completely screwed. The way it was explained to me, the buyer bought the assets from his bankrupt company, so there was no money left to pay employees severance (from his company) and the buyer did not keep any of the employees nor have any obligation to pay severance out of their pocket.

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Repsol did some layoffs over the last month. About 11 in various business functions a few weeks ago and 6 in IT last week. I was one of the ones in IT. Been there 12 years, so it was 12 months worth of salary, plus money for benefits that I lose and my 2020 bonus, which was the average of the last two years of variable pay I received. Also got about 3 weeks of vacation paid out. Shit timing but overall pretty happy with what I received. Talisman was very generous in their packages so I'm glad this retained when they were took over by Repsol.

Sorry to hear about your layoff, but that is a pretty excellent sounding package that should hopefully keep you going more than long enough to find something else

[schurchill39]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Repsol did some layoffs over the last month. About 11 in various business functions a few weeks ago and 6 in IT last week. I was one of the ones in IT. Been there 12 years, so it was 12 months worth of salary, plus money for benefits that I lose and my 2020 bonus, which was the average of the last two years of variable pay I received. Also got about 3 weeks of vacation paid out. Shit timing but overall pretty happy with what I received. Talisman was very generous in their packages so I'm glad this retained when they were took over by Repsol.

I am friends with the (former) completion team that got decimated and it sounds like they are pretty happy with their packages too all things considered. One of the guys has two young kids so its obviously a huge stressor but at least with his package he is set for a little while.

Any word on the timing of the Enbridge layoffs and what business units it will mostly effect?

[CaptainReboot]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah he got completely screwed. The way it was explained to me, the buyer bought the assets from his bankrupt company, so there was no money left to pay employees severance (from his company) and the buyer did not keep any of the employees nor have any obligation to pay severance out of their pocket.

- - - Updated - - -



Sorry to hear about your layoff, but that is a pretty excellent sounding package that should hopefully keep you going more than long enough to find something else

Thanks. The moral there was very shitty, not just within IT. We were pretty much handcuffed from making any type of decisions without the head office in Madrid wanting to get involved so this is good for me. I enjoyed the team I had and the people I worked with, so that was hard but the job itself sucked. Plus it’s the never ending cycle of layoffs that we see every June and November.

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am friends with the (former) completion team that got decimated and it sounds like they are pretty happy with their packages too all things considered. One of the guys has two young kids so its obviously a huge stressor but at least with his package he is set for a little while.

Any word on the timing of the Enbridge layoffs and what business units it will mostly effect?

Yep, the completions team pretty much disappeared that day. I knew some of those people as well and some knew it was coming.

[blitz]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah he got completely screwed. The way it was explained to me, the buyer bought the assets from his bankrupt company, so there was no money left to pay employees severance (from his company) and the buyer did not keep any of the employees nor have any obligation to pay severance out of their pocket.

If your company is in CCAA, there is no severance. You get salary for time worked and unused vacation paid out.

[mr2mike]

I'd love to know more about where these next jobs are for any O&G employees?
Even 12 months salary may not be enough to hold you through.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd love to know more about where these next jobs are for any O&G employees?
Even 12 months salary may not be enough to hold you through.

Nenshi says Green Line will create 20,000 good government jobs so thank god for that.

[ExtraSlow]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Nenshi says Green Line will create 20,000 good government jobs so thank god for that.

Plus will make Calgary a world class city and the employers will probably flock in after that.

[Darell_n]

My shop laid off 17% of our workforce, but he wasn’t working out anyway.