Has your office / company laid people off or are you expecting layoffs? PART 8

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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Government shouldn’t bail out anyone. If a technology is good people will invest in it.

As for jobs, how are “new” jobs more valuable than existing jobs?

Companies are not, and should not, be in the business of hording cash anyway. Very inefficient use of capital.

Corporations going under is a normal part of life, no one should be doing anything to prevent or encourage that regardless of what business that company is in. That’s how improvement happens. Governments just get in the way of progress.

Actually, I do believe some industries need to have reserves inorder to fulfill services/promises. Ie. Insurance companies have regulated reserves that need to be met in case of catastrophe. Similarly, airlines are selling tickets months and years in advance, which means they need to have some level of commitment to meet the pre purchased services. Otherwise, airlines should not be allowed to sell tickets far in advance. This by no means is "hoarding" cash.

[Xtrema]

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Actually, I do believe some industries need to have reserves inorder to fulfill services/promises. Ie. Insurance companies have regulated reserves that need to be met in case of catastrophe. Similarly, airlines are selling tickets months and years in advance, which means they need to have some level of commitment to meet the pre purchased services. Otherwise, airlines should not be allowed to sell tickets far in advance. This by no means is "hoarding" cash.

Airlines which compete internationally is much harder to legislate when many governments are subsidizing their national airline to gain an competitive edge.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/03/...avel-grounded/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhor.../#7f57634e34b6

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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Airlines which compete internationally is much harder to legislate when many governments are subsidizing their national airline to gain an competitive edge.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/03/...avel-grounded/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhor.../#7f57634e34b6

Thats not really an excuse to sell services cannot guarantee to be met.... If airlines fold after 3 months of unforeseeable circumstances, then they should not be allowed to sell tickets later than 3 months. Simply put, they should not be allowed to sell what they cannot promise. Consumers are impacted with potential losses if they do not have liquidity to refund unused ticekts.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Also, Airlines such as Cathay has laid off hundreds of staff in the past few years regardless of the political or pandemic. They have been notorious in HK for cutting quick and ruthlessly. Now, they ask for bailout from the gov saying they need to "save" jobs. I honestly believe most bailout money goes to the top execs which were never fucking impacted by previous layoffs and current economic down turn. Also, lots of flight attendants and pilots have been laid off due to the pandemic. These bailouts will not bring those people back to work. So again, the bailouts do not help the working class.

[Buster]

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Thats not really an excuse to sell services cannot guarantee to be met.... If airlines fold after 3 months of unforeseeable circumstances, then they should not be allowed to sell tickets later than 3 months. Simply put, they should not be allowed to sell what they cannot promise. Consumers are impacted with potential losses if they do not have liquidity to refund unused ticekts.

There is no need to place such restrictions on airlines (or any other business for that matter). There are better remedies to this type of risk than gov't mandate. Same with the insurance industry you mentioned before. Smart consumers will reward appropriate behaviour/commitments from airlines or insurance companies.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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There is no need to place such restrictions on airlines (or any other business for that matter). There are better remedies to this type of risk than gov't mandate. Same with the insurance industry you mentioned before. Smart consumers will reward appropriate behaviour/commitments from airlines or insurance companies.

What are you smoking? Most companies and insurers do the bare minimum only because of regulations. I worked in pricing and reserving for many insurers and the bare minimum is usually met only with numbers game.

And you truly believe majority of consumers are "smart consumers"? All purchase decisions come from adequate research and not purely based on the ticket price? Please, if that was the case, no budget airline would be around today. Heck, most of you beyonders dont even read your vehicle insurance policy lol.

[Xtrema]

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There is no need to place such restrictions on airlines (or any other business for that matter). There are better remedies to this type of risk than gov't mandate. Same with the insurance industry you mentioned before. Smart consumers will reward appropriate behaviour/commitments from airlines or insurance companies.

I'm onboard with free market airlines. People misplaces their national pride/value onto a flag carrier which lead to government subsidization, if there is gov $ to hand out, subsidizes the airport to lower fees to attract routes to it. Not to airlines.

Insurance companies I'm not sure since it's not a service that you can review until a claim is made and you want some guarantee the company is there to honor that. And given most insurance works like MLM (sales structure anyway) and most people doesn't understand what they are buying most of the time, some regulation isn't a bad thing.

[Buster]

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What are you smoking? Most companies and insurers do the bare minimum only because of regulations. I worked in pricing and reserving for many insurers and the bare minimum is usually met only with numbers game.

And you truly believe majority of consumers are "smart consumers"? All purchase decisions come from adequate research and not purely based on the ticket price? Please, if that was the case, no budget airline would be around today. Heck, most of you beyonders dont even read your vehicle insurance policy lol.

There are numerous examples of consumers making smart choices in the face of future uncertainty. If they are rewarded, then they will reward the supplier (insurer, airline, etc), and the suppliers will need to be conscious of making appropriate commitments, advertising their reserves, etc. Why do you think car manufacturers offer warranties?

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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There are numerous examples of consumers making smart choices in the face of future uncertainty. If they are rewarded, then they will reward the supplier (insurer, airline, etc), and the suppliers will need to be conscious of making appropriate commitments, advertising their reserves, etc. Why do you think car manufacturers offer warranties?

Warranty is slightly different from insurance and pre purchased services. Similarly, California Fitness gym in HK have sold multiple year passes that are paid UPFRONT. Then they closed down shop shortly after. They knew they were going under and they pushed sales even harder than before to hustle as much cash as possible before filing bankruptcy. Clearly, the owner made a conscious decision near the end to scam consumers. He was also never penalized. While you could say consumers are responsible for their own investments, there are limited choices to choose from. This is why buying a prebuilt home/condo, usually dealt with an intermediary to hold the cash to protect the buyers.

I am not against free market. I totally agree with free market. And hence why Gov should not bail out these companies that dont have safeguarding/reserves for their company, employees and customers. If they did, and they still go bust, then I would be more lenient on bailout. It really isnt "free market" if companies dont prepare themselves for losses and ask for a handout. And like I said many times, bailout money does not benefit the working class much to begin with. I dont understand how a "free market" gets government bailouts. If it is truly a free market, then they should fold and file bankruptcy. No bonuses to the top executives whom failed to prepare the company for such events.

[killramos]

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Actually, I do believe some industries need to have reserves inorder to fulfill services/promises. Ie. Insurance companies have regulated reserves that need to be met in case of catastrophe. Similarly, airlines are selling tickets months and years in advance, which means they need to have some level of commitment to meet the pre purchased services. Otherwise, airlines should not be allowed to sell tickets far in advance. This by no means is "hoarding" cash.

If you are that concerned about an industry being able to fulfill services to you, feel free to buy insurance. Lots of companies out there willing to sell it to you.

What you are suggesting is that you think companies should be mandated to insure you, which means you want everyone to pay for that service you want and drive costs up all around ( yea companies hoarding cash will make their businesses more expensive).

Nice ideas, but no I do not agree with you.

What you are suggesting is substantial government intervention in day to day business as a general statement. Which I do not support.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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If you are that concerned about an industry being able to fulfill services to you, feel free to buy insurance. Lots of companies out there willing to sell it to you.

What you are suggesting is that you think companies should be mandated to insure you, which means you want everyone to pay for that service you want and drive costs up all around ( yea companies hoarding cash will make their businesses more expensive).

Nice ideas, but no I do not agree with you.

What you are suggesting is substantial government intervention in day to day business as a general statement. Which I do not support.

I am not saying gov should intervene with a free market. I support free market. Which is exactly why bailouts do not make any sense. How can the gov bailout because of the company did not have their own reserves/safeguard? In a real free market, these companies fold and all employees including the executives should be out of a job.

If a company asks for bailout/help from the gov (which is tax dollars), then they need to be regulated in a way that safeguards the mass public whom helped bailed the company. This is only fair to prevent failures again in the future and provide a reasonable justification for the FREE money.

Is my argument not clear? You cant have the best of both worlds in a free market.

[killramos]

No bailouts. No cash hoarding.

Best of both worlds

Who cares what the companies ask for, government should tell them to pound sand.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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No bailouts. No cash hoarding.

Best of both worlds

Who cares what the companies ask for, government should tell them to pound sand.

Exactly... This is what I am saying from the very beginning. My entire point was let the airlines fold/die because they failed and put the gov funding to better use (could create new jobs and industries). There will always be airlines when there are demands.

[Buster]

I believe you said airlines should be regulated to insure consumers against their own insolvency. Wich is a crazy plan.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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I believe you said airlines should be regulated to insure consumers against their own insolvency. Wich is a crazy plan.

I did say that too. Because they are being bailed out and should be held liable to some extent. If they have the balls to ask for government support, then they should be subject to gov regulations.

Have I been typing Japanese or something?

[bjstare]

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I did say that too. Because they are being bailed out and should be held liable to some extent. If they have the balls to ask for government support, then they should be subject to gov regulations.

Have I been typing Japanese or something?

No, just nonsensical English.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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No, just nonsensical English.

As usual, beyond is full of intellectuals

[Zhariak]

Just to chime in with my 2 cents...

Canadians, being some of the most heavily taxed in the world also pay heavy taxes to fly.

Forget a bailout, why don't they just reduce taxes and get more people to fly? If we had more competition, less taxation, we could be flying almost as cheap as Americans and Europeans fly. All my US travel, I fly Delta out of YYC and connect through SEA, or SLC to my final destination, the flights are half or even less than that what it costs to fly with Canadian airlines. Flying from US to US is dirt cheap, I book business class tickets for less than what you pay in Canada domestically to do the same distance in economy. I know that there's a population difference that factors in to price, but a big chunk is taxation and the structure of it.

And get this... You make flying more cheaper, it would stimulate business' to grow and encourage companies to branch out and service larger areas in Canada. I for one have to factor this in when dealing with prospects in other parts of Canada, and I shake my head in disappointment with how much more I could be doing if we paid what Americans pay to fly.


But hey, this is what Canadians voted for: They voted for sky high taxes. They voted for out of control spending and borrowing. They voted to rely on the government to survive. They voted to be one paycheck away from insolvency, and to rely on something like CERB when a disaster hit. And they voted for CERB.


I just SMH at this, the problems facing Canadians.

[killramos]

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As usual, beyond is full of intellectuals

You just can’t pick a lane

[pheoxs]

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Just to chime in with my 2 cents...

Canadians, being some of the most heavily taxed in the world also pay heavy taxes to fly.

Forget a bailout, why don't they just reduce taxes and get more people to fly? If we had more competition, less taxation, we could be flying almost as cheap as Americans and Europeans fly. All my US travel, I fly Delta out of YYC and connect through SEA, or SLC to my final destination, the flights are half or even less than that what it costs to fly with Canadian airlines. Flying from US to US is dirt cheap, I book business class tickets for less than what you pay in Canada domestically to do the same distance in economy. I know that there's a population difference that factors in to price, but a big chunk is taxation and the structure of it.

And get this... You make flying more cheaper, it would stimulate business' to grow and encourage companies to branch out and service larger areas in Canada. I for one have to factor this in when dealing with prospects in other parts of Canada, and I shake my head in disappointment with how much more I could be doing if we paid what Americans pay to fly.


But hey, this is what Canadians voted for: They voted for sky high taxes. They voted for out of control spending and borrowing. They voted to rely on the government to survive. They voted to be one paycheck away from insolvency, and to rely on something like CERB when a disaster hit. And they voted for CERB.


I just SMH at this, the problems facing Canadians.

Pretty much this. The fact that its cheaper to fly to Seattle, Vegas, or LA than to fly to Vancouver 9 times out of 10 is ridiculous. Wanna promote Canadian tourism? make all the airport BS fees and taxes cheaper. I can't tell you how many times I've invited my US friends up here for music festivals and they were on board until they saw how much it costs to fly.