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Has your office / company laid people off or are you expecting layoffs? PART 8 - Page 45 - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

View Poll Results: What is your current employment status?

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  • I was laid off and haven't found SIMILAR work yet

    11 5.67%
  • I was laid off and found a new job in the same industry

    13 6.70%
  • I was laid off and found a new job/career in a different industry

    11 5.67%
  • I'm still plugging along with the same company I've always been with

    97 50.00%
  • I quit my job and went elsewhere

    21 10.82%
  • We're all fucked

    42 21.65%
  • Other

    4 2.06%
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Thread: Has your office / company laid people off or are you expecting layoffs? PART 8

  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    An airline is not a business with a core competency of speculating on, or developing new technologies. An airline is a marketing, and customer service entity, that leases their capital equipment and contracts out most of their operations. I doubt that the shareholders would support a management team that utilized capital to speculate or try to pivot into an R+D enterprise. A shareholder would rightfully conclude that they can speculate better themselves, or they could take the excess capital that they have earned in the airline and deploy it in other corporations that specialize in R+D or handing it to professionals who invest in R+D.

    Perhaps all of the technologies that you listed are amazing and viable....but that does not mean that an airline is the optimal source of capital to develop those projects.

    Sorry, I think you misunderstood what I am referring too. I am referring to the gov bail out to the airlines. I would rather gov spend money to create NEW jobs and industries that is both beneficial for short and long term. If an airlines cannot maintain their operating P&L, then tough nuggets to them. Tax dollars should not go into businesses that have poorly managed their reserves. Many airlines made money in the past decade but reserved little to no money in times of crisis. Instead of paying bailout, gov should spend money on new industries that scale for the future. Pilots, flight attendants, etc, are soon to be replaced or minimized. Hence, spending money in new sectors which helps future proof skillsets for their employees is important.
    Originally posted by beyond_ban
    Yo Kanye, ima let you finish, but 50 Cent had the best concert cancellation of all time.

  2. #882
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    Government shouldn’t bail out anyone. If a technology is good people will invest in it.

    As for jobs, how are “new” jobs more valuable than existing jobs?

    Companies are not, and should not, be in the business of hording cash anyway. Very inefficient use of capital.

    Corporations going under is a normal part of life, no one should be doing anything to prevent or encourage that regardless of what business that company is in. That’s how improvement happens. Governments just get in the way of progress.
    Last edited by killramos; 06-26-2020 at 07:08 AM.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  3. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Government shouldn’t bail out anyone. If a technology is good people will invest in it.
    You Free-Market, Capitalist swine!

  4. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2mike View Post
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    You Free-Market, Capitalist swine!
    That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  5. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me
    I've started to see zoomers use "Capitalist" as an insult lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by heavyfuel View Post
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    That's why I just say I have a 4" dick and lift weights to make up for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
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    My car sounds like shit.

  6. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Companies are not, and should not, be in the business of hording cash anyway. Very inefficient use of capital.
    I bet the owners of companies in receivership or bankruptcy proceedings disagree with you.

    The irresponsible leverage taken on in the pursuit of "growth" has taken a toll and required government intervention.

    We maintain a strong balance sheet (read: hoard cash) because shit happens. We can now use our cash to acquire over leveraged competitors or just sleep well at night.

  7. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    I bet the owners of companies in receivership or bankruptcy proceedings disagree with you.

    The irresponsible leverage taken on in the pursuit of "growth" has taken a toll and required government intervention.

    We maintain a strong balance sheet (read: hoard cash) because shit happens. We can now use our cash to acquire over leveraged competitors or just sleep well at night.
    You have it backwards - government intervention has caused the irresponsible leverage.

    As for you hoarding cash - nothing wrong with that...that decision is up to you, just like every individual making individual choices in an economy results in the most efficient allocation of capital. But hoarding cash is not a productive use of that cash, it is simply a speculative bet just like any other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Government shouldn’t bail out anyone. If a technology is good people will invest in it.

    As for jobs, how are “new” jobs more valuable than existing jobs?

    Companies are not, and should not, be in the business of hording cash anyway. Very inefficient use of capital.

    Corporations going under is a normal part of life, no one should be doing anything to prevent or encourage that regardless of what business that company is in. That’s how improvement happens. Governments just get in the way of progress.
    Very well said, my capitalist swine pig friend.

    I would add that "hoarding cash" isn't a particularly productive use of capital for anyone. This is why I laugh when people say that governments should be saving tax income for a rainy day. I rarely hear worse ideas than that.

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me
    It's the simple things.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilDrunkenSmurf View Post
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    I've started to see zoomers use "Capitalist" as an insult lately.
    I'm definitely pro capitalism. Cannot stand half the government intervention in this country.

  9. #889
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    Artificially keeping rates low (assume that's what you mean by intervention) incentives borrowing but it does not cause borrowing.

    That's simply a business decision on risk or reward which the banks have created deeper issues. You would like us to waive covenants and increase the Debt: EBITDA from 2x to 5x... OK!

    We have been approached several times by our bank and other partners about a credit facility at "amazing" rates. Never mind the subordinated debt offers which are brutal.

    We certainly forgo some "growth" in our approach but can comfortably weather any storm (economic cycles, oil crisis, COVID-19) and should we not have "efficient" uses of capital pay some dividends to the shareholder group.

    At the end of the day each industry is different. We operate in the commercial construction space where margins are low (<8%). Having 10% of your margins servicing debt will never work and unfortunately a lot of companies are there or worse.

  10. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    Artificially keeping rates low (assume that's what you mean by intervention) incentives borrowing but it does not cause borrowing.

    .
    This is a distinction without a difference. Low rates do not force borrowing, but they certainly cause it.

    I am not making a judgement call on how you as a firm handle your balance sheet - I don't particularly care one way or the other and it's a decision that's up to you. However, that just places you on a particular part of the risk:reward curve, it doesn't change the curve.

    The key to all of this is to ensure that price discovery on that risk occurs. Right now, it appears that it does not. That's why we aren't in a capitalist "market". Capitalists expect people to get punished.

  11. #891
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    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on correlation v. causation.

    The cause of opening up a credit facility is not "low rates". That's simply the carrot.

    The cause of opening up a credit facility is we have an opportunity to enter a new market, acquire a target or fund R&D based on some form of project economics.

    I can agree price discovery needs to occur on the risk curve and the pendulum has swung too far in the wrong direction. Some will get punished - others will make more profits because of CEWS

  12. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on correlation v. causation.

    The cause of opening up a credit facility is not "low rates". That's simply the carrot.

    The cause of opening up a credit facility is we have an opportunity to enter a new market, acquire a target or fund R&D based on some form of project economics.

    I can agree price discovery needs to occur on the risk curve and the pendulum has swung too far in the wrong direction. Some will get punished - others will make more profits because of CEWS
    The project economics (any project) are very dependent on the cost of capital. If you lower the cost of capital you cause things to happen that otherwise would not. This isn't a coincidence or even a correlation - it's the explicit purpose of the low rates.

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    Don’t worry guys, City Council is on this... We are going to try to convince the UN to move their headquarters here.

    https://calgaryherald.com/business/v...bold-solutions

    Coun. Joe Magliocca inquired during a meeting this week if Calgary Economic Development is interested in attracting the United Nations headquarters away from New York City.

    “I’ve heard through rumours that the UN wants to move out of New York,” Magliocca told CED chief executive officer Mary Moran during the group’s annual meeting.

    “Is there any ambition on going after that?”

    If the local development authority was prepared to fight a bear to bring Amazon to town — the slogan of its 2017 campaign to attract the online retail behemoth — what would it battle to draw the world’s most powerful intergovernmental organization here?

    Hey, we’ve got floors upon floors of available downtown office space and The Economist has designated Calgary the most livable city in North America.
    Just when you think our council couldn’t get any more out of touch they find some new gem

    The upside is, Trudeau would literally shit himself if Calgary was the HQ of the UN
    Last edited by killramos; 06-28-2020 at 12:53 PM.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  14. #894
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    I think we had a better chance of getting Amazon HQ, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I think we had a better chance of getting Amazon HQ, lol.
    I think we have a better chance of getting the White House moved here
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  16. #896
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    When the USA annexes Alberta, will it just become part of montana? I somehow don't see them adding a new state.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  17. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    When the USA annexes Alberta, will it just become part of montana? I somehow don't see them adding a new state.
    Or we'll become North Montana and current Montana will become South Montana. Get some copycat going of the Dakotas

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    We won't be a state, we'll be North Puerto Rico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    We won't be a state, we'll be North Puerto Rico.
    Isn't all of Canada kind of that already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Don’t worry guys, City Council is on this... We are going to try to convince the UN to move their headquarters here.

    https://calgaryherald.com/business/v...bold-solutions



    Just when you think our council couldn’t get any more out of touch they find some new gem

    The upside is, Trudeau would literally shit himself if Calgary was the HQ of the UN
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott - @flipstah

    but I agree lol Nice one City Council haha

    How about Cannabis R&D instead? Make this the Cannabis Capital of the WORLD.
    Originally posted by rage2
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