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Thread: The $100,000 a year waitress isn't a myth: Some hard truths about tipping in Canada

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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-18-2019 at 03:28 PM.

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    My biggest complaint is that expected tip percentages have been steadily increasing. What used to be 10-15% moved to 15-20% and now seems to be always 18% plus. I do think it is getting excessive especially since it tends to be expected as a floor.

    Especially if you look at the price of your bill. Before the last increase to min wage, I might have gone out and spent $100 at a restaurant, stayed for 1 hour and tipped $20. Now, in that one hour, the waitress makes an extra $1.40 thanks to the NDP, the restaurant owner increased prices so my bill is now $105, and the same 20% tip now costs me $21 so the waitress made an extra $2.40 in one hour for the same work. Not bad considering how many tables they usually cover.

    Also, shouldn't my tip depend more on the length of time you serve me rather than the bill amount? Most people would consider a $20 tip on a $100 bill good and for an hour of the servers time I agree. But if you racked that up over 2 hours? Not as good anymore.

    I also agree with the price of the wine affecting tip part. If my wife and I eat out for $100 by drinking water vs $200 by drinking wine, should the tip really double? And what if we decide to celebrate with a $200 or $300 bottle? Does that same server really deserve $60-80 tip now for an hour of work? And speaking of that, how much should a server make an hour? $50? $100? $200? Because it sure does add up.

    I have an admin that works for me and works at a chain restaurant a few nights a week for some extra money and she said she regularly makes $200+ a night in tips (4-6 hour shift). And even though those tips usually come via credit or debit cards, the restaurant still tips out in cash at the end of the night and doesn't put it on her T4. She makes way more per hour than she does here. Also, she says that if two couples come in for one hour and one spends $60 and tips 20% and the other spends $200 and tips 10% the servers will talk about how cheap the second couple is even though they technically tipped more. lol

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    Those of you who tip based on the principle that no amount of money would get you to put up with customers like you may encounter in a restaurant environment, I am curious, do you also tip people like the garbage man, nurses, flight attendants (perhaps the most deserving), janitors, cleaning staff, etc. who put up with much worse and also do a job that I am guessing you would never want to do? If not then what is the difference when all of them are making living wages?

    --------------------

    In other news I went to Prairie Dog Brewing on the weekend, and to my surprise they do not have any tipping there. Instead there was a blurb on the menu about their employees getting a living wage. Service was much better than any higher end restaurant I have been to in recent memory, and the price premiums they (presumably) charged on the menu were nowhere near what 20% would have cost me elsewhere. Beers and more food than we could eat for 2 people for $60. Best restaurant experience I have had in Calgary in ages, and it was at a Pub of all places.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-07-2019 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Those of you who tip based on the principle that no amount of money would get you to put up with customers like you may encounter in a restaurant environment, I am curious, do you also tip people like the garbage man, nurses, flight attendants (perhaps the most deserving), janitors, cleaning staff, etc. who put up with much worse and also do a job that I am guessing you would never want to do? If not then what is the difference when all of them are making living wages?
    Tits and ass hanging out.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Those of you who tip based on the principle that no amount of money would get you to put up with customers like you may encounter in a restaurant environment, I am curious, do you also tip people like the garbage man, nurses, flight attendants (perhaps the most deserving), janitors, cleaning staff, etc. who put up with much worse and also do a job that I am guessing you would never want to do? If not then what is the difference when all of them are making living wages?

    --------------------

    In other news I went to Prairie Dog Brewing on the weekend, and to my surprise they do not have any tipping there. Instead there was a blurb on the menu about their employees getting a living wage. Service was much better than any higher end restaurant I have been to in recent memory, and the price premiums they (presumably) charged on the menu were nowhere near what 20% would have cost me elsewhere. Beers and more food than we could eat for 2 people for $60. Best restaurant experience I have had in Calgary in ages, and it was at a Pub of all places.
    Probably just cultural influences and customs. It’s customary to tip someone bringing you food but not your mail or picking up your garbage. Humans are weird animals, I agree it isn’t logically consistent when comparing the situations but is logically consistent when looking at humans.

    Why do billions of people apply harsh scrutiny and rigor to every scientific theory proposed yet apply almost none to whatever mythical being they believe in? Humans are stupid animals

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    Tits and ass hanging out.
    The truth. Unless it's a dude. Then I'd let my wife pay and she could tip whatever she thought was appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    The biggest change today is that tips aren’t cash anymore.
    I know an Asian resturant that requests tips be in cash. They know what's up.

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    I love traveling to countries that don't tip - Australia, Spain, and most of Asia. The service is just as good if not better than what we get in Calgary and prices are better too.

    Next up will be a button on the machine to help pay for Calgary Restaurant's property taxes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidI View Post
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    I love traveling to countries that don't tip - Australia, Spain, and most of Asia. The service is just as good if not better than what we get in Calgary and prices are better too.

    Next up will be a button on the machine to help pay for Calgary Restaurant's property taxes...
    Interesting. I’m not sure about Asia but have heard restaurant experiences in Australia and Spain are terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lasimmon View Post
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    Interesting. I’m not sure about Asia but have heard restaurant experiences in Australia and Spain are terrible.
    Can't speak for Australia or Spain but I have been to many countries where tipping is either a very low % or not expected at all (Germany, Austria, Japan, Switzerland, Scotland, etc.) and service is night and day better than anything you'd typically get in Calgary. Add to this the USA where many states pay a $2.50/hr wage or so for servers, and service is also night and day better because they don't automatically expect 20% for showing up to work. My parents did a big trip to Australia/New Zealand last year and one of the comments they made was how amazing the service was everywhere - they had a story where they tried to tip and the server ran them down when they left to give it back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lasimmon View Post
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    Interesting. I’m not sure about Asia but have heard restaurant experiences in Australia and Spain are terrible.
    Spanish service has its own cultural nuances but it's not that bad if you learn how things work.

    Australian service is on par with Calgary IMO. An added bonus is having water jugs in bars so you can fill up your own water whenever you want without waiting / asking / hassling the servers or bartenders. I was at first shocked at menu prices in Australia but after factoring in the fact that tax and tip is included I suddenly reaslized how ridiculously priced menu items in Calgary are.

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    Yea I wouldn’t say Spain has better or worse service than North America. Just different. If you want to get a NA normal time dinner in some areas I found it difficult to find places serving at our regular dinner hours, they tend to start dinner late. I remember eating at one place and we got their earliest reservation which was like 7 or something silly.

    Then dinners there are meant to be an experience, they are generally drawn out and service (especially getting the bill) can take a while from what I remember.

    For me I personally hated it, I don’t often like long drawn out dinners at restaurants (pubs are different). I like things efficient, no BS, not formal. I found that difficult to do in Spain unless I was going to little hole in the wall places.

    Actually I didn’t end up eating a lot of ‘meals’ for dinner there, most of the time just went to places for tapas

    But I can see the appeal for some
    Last edited by J-hop; 01-11-2019 at 01:24 AM.

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    So people who tip based on how good the service is, what exactly is good or bad service at a restaurant?

    My experience is almost always exactly the same:

    - Bring menu
    - Take drink order
    - Bring drinks, take food order
    - Bring food
    - Check back in 3 minutes to see if the food is ok
    - Take plate, offer dessert, say no, bring bill

    I always just tip 15% or round up to whatever change makes sense, though someone told me last week that this is considered cheap now.

    I've never had bad service that I can remember. I can't think of how to screw that up really, unless you order something and they just forget about you, which I assume is pretty rare. I don't know how you'd really do it better either. What do you expect of a server in order to earn your max tip amount?

    I also noticed the pre-calculated tip amounts are more often being set for the after tax amount, which is some sneaky BS

    Quote Originally Posted by blownz View Post
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    And even though those tips usually come via credit or debit cards, the restaurant still tips out in cash at the end of the night and doesn't put it on her T4.
    Highly unlikely to be the case, otherwise the employer is paying the tax on money they aren't even earning. Anyone that dumb won't be in business very long.


    Anyway, this article is total bullshit. There are outliers everywhere, that's all this is. For example:

    Hawaii, which has the highest-paid waiters and waitresses in the country (mean wage: $17.84/hour)[8] has a minimum wage of $8.50 for tipped employees.

    In Massachusetts, where the tipped minimum wage is $2.63, the average income of tipped waiters and waitresses is $12.88. In Washington State, where the minimum wage for wait staff is $9.47, the average wage is $13.25 after gratuity. Of the five states where wait staff earn the highest average income per hour, four have a tipped minimum wage below the non-tipped minimum wage.[18] It is important to note, however, that these figures relate only to tips reported to the government for taxes, and that real tips may be significantly higher.
    The unreported cash part, especially for higher end places, is pretty minimal. Everyone uses cards unless they're at a bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    Highly unlikely to be the case, otherwise the employer is paying the tax on money they aren't even earning. Anyone that dumb won't be in business very long.

    I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that is not how that works. It should not be hard for any accountant to separate the tip amounts out and not claim it as revenue, it is listed right on the receipt that it is gratuity. Gratuity is income for the waitress not the house, so it is up to the waitress to claim those tips and pay taxes on them. I'd imagine cash would be the optimal way to give the tips to the servers, it means less cash they have to haul to the bank for deposit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    So people who tip based on how good the service is, what exactly is good or bad service at a restaurant?

    My experience is almost always exactly the same:

    - Bring menu
    - Take drink order
    - Bring drinks, take food order
    - Bring food
    - Check back in 3 minutes to see if the food is ok
    - Take plate, offer dessert, say no, bring bill

    I always just tip 15% or round up to whatever change makes sense, though someone told me last week that this is considered cheap now.

    I've never had bad service that I can remember. I can't think of how to screw that up really, unless you order something and they just forget about you, which I assume is pretty rare. I don't know how you'd really do it better either. What do you expect of a server in order to earn your max tip amount?

    I also noticed the pre-calculated tip amounts are more often being set for the after tax amount, which is some sneaky BS



    Highly unlikely to be the case, otherwise the employer is paying the tax on money they aren't even earning. Anyone that dumb won't be in business very long.


    Anyway, this article is total bullshit. There are outliers everywhere, that's all this is. For example:



    The unreported cash part, especially for higher end places, is pretty minimal. Everyone uses cards unless they're at a bar.
    15% is now my max tip. And even that is too much in Calgary with the shit service here.

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    Forgetting drinks, forgetting refills is quite common.

    Wrong order, extremely late food arrival is less common.

    Not getting served at all has also happened to me but that is extremely rare.

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    Fixed

    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    my experience is almost always exactly the same:

    - bring menu
    - take drink order
    - bring drinks, take food order
    - bring food
    - check back in 3 minutes to see if the food is ok
    - take plate, offer dessert, say no, bring bill


    - waitress starts flirting as a poor, last ditch tip effort while you pay

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    *Flirty Waitress grubbing for a tip as you pay* “Soooooo what are your plans for the night”

    *Me at 5pm on a Saturday* “Well the plan is to go home take my pants off and watch Netflix”

    Classic
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    Forgetting drinks, forgetting refills is quite common.

    Wrong order, extremely late food arrival is less common.

    Not getting served at all has also happened to me but that is extremely rare.
    I see, I never drink enough coke for a refill, and they aren’t stupid enough to forget alcoholic drinks around here. They know that pads the bill, turns the table faster, and buzzed people are more loose tippers. I don’t tip less for slow/wrong order, it’s usually out of the server’s control, and I’ve never had it completely wrong, just a failed ingredient substitution if anything, like swiss vs cheddar.

    The worst in recent memory was at Ruth’s Chris for lunch and my medium rare was well done, which I barely said a word about when asked how it turned out, and they apologized profusely, then the manager came over, apologized again and comped our steaks. We were drinking Macallan 25 though, so they probably didn’t lose anything on the final bill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that is not how that works. It should not be hard for any accountant to separate the tip amounts out and not claim it as revenue, it is listed right on the receipt that it is gratuity. Gratuity is income for the waitress not the house, so it is up to the waitress to claim those tips and pay taxes on them. I'd imagine cash would be the optimal way to give the tips to the servers, it means less cash they have to haul to the bank for deposit.
    Ah, you’re right actually, Canada is different (except maybe Quebec apparently). The IRS doesn’t let you get away with that. You have to report your employees tips, and if disbursements don’t match, they’ll go after you for for failing to withhold and remit tax on those wages.

    Another point that got little attention in the article, waitress said she is not only at a high end place (the place itself being an outlier) but that she makes more than the rest of the servers there. So an outlier among outliers.

    Also, she clarifies that she didn’t gross 100k, but 100k is an approximation in order to correct for the unreported income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    So people who tip based on how good the service is, what exactly is good or bad service at a restaurant?

    My experience is almost always exactly the same:

    - Bring menu
    - Take drink order
    - Bring drinks, take food order
    - Bring food
    - Check back in 3 minutes to see if the food is ok
    - Take plate, offer dessert, say no, bring bill

    I always just tip 15% or round up to whatever change makes sense, though someone told me last week that this is considered cheap now.

    I've never had bad service that I can remember. I can't think of how to screw that up really, unless you order something and they just forget about you, which I assume is pretty rare. I don't know how you'd really do it better either. What do you expect of a server in order to earn your max tip amount?

    I also noticed the pre-calculated tip amounts are more often being set for the after tax amount, which is some sneaky BS



    Highly unlikely to be the case, otherwise the employer is paying the tax on money they aren't even earning. Anyone that dumb won't be in business very long.


    Anyway, this article is total bullshit. There are outliers everywhere, that's all this is. For example:



    The unreported cash part, especially for higher end places, is pretty minimal. Everyone uses cards unless they're at a bar.
    For me the one thing where service can be good or bad is whether the server is attentive to drinks.

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