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    Default Negotiating on New Vehicle Purchase

    Hey all,

    Might not be in the right place, please move if so.

    Looking to be getting a new vehicle in the next couple of months. Was wondering what everyones thoughts were specifically regarding negotiation of price. Where do you start your negotiations, or what do you use to ballpark? The vehicle I'm looking at is roughly 8K over MSRP before dealer incentives, 4K over with incentives that end Tomorrow, and the vehicle is the closest to what I am looking for without ordering from factory.

    What about negotiating finance rates? Is that a thing that can happen?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 300havoc View Post
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    Hey all,

    Might not be in the right place, please move if so.

    Looking to be getting a new vehicle in the next couple of months. Was wondering what everyones thoughts were specifically regarding negotiation of price. Where do you start your negotiations, or what do you use to ballpark? The vehicle I'm looking at is roughly 8K over MSRP before dealer incentives, 4K over with incentives that end Tomorrow, and the vehicle is the closest to what I am looking for without ordering from factory.

    What about negotiating finance rates? Is that a thing that can happen?

    Thanks!
    Use unhaggle to make sure official numbers matches whatever you got quoted.

    And I assume you mean $8K over invoice instead of MSRP. And if there is $8K over invoice, you either buying something over $60K or trucks.

    If factory rate sucks, you are probably looking at HELOC. Any other type of auto loans is probably going to be higher. Factory rate is not negotiable but they may do some promos for returning customers (same brand) or conquest (from brands they want to steal customers from) and that are usually 1% off.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 01-29-2019 at 08:29 PM.

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    Probably depends how in demand the vehicle is. If in demand, they tell you to pound sand. If it's a car that has been sitting for a year, feel free to lowball lol
    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    Use unhaggle to make sure official numbers matches whatever you got quoted.

    And I assume you mean $8K over invoice instead of MSRP. And if there is $8K over invoice, you either buying something over $60K or trucks.

    If factory rate sucks, you are probably looking at HELOC. Any other type of auto loans is probably going to be higher. Factory rate is not negotiable but they may do some promos for returning customers (same brand) or conquest (from brands they want to steall customer from) and that are usually 1% off.
    Sorry, I guess I messed that up. the price of the vehicle is 51K after the options added in. I wish I could get less of the options I didn't need, but no lots seem to have it.
    I am just going off sticker price/pricing on the website.

    Can't HELOC, because don't own a home. 4.99% is the finance rate.

    Great suggestion for Unhaggle. This is what I see:
    Screen Shot 2019-01-29 at 7.45.23 PM.jpg

    I guess with the dealer incentive being almost 2K, they probably wouldn't be that willing to move closer to dealer invoice would they?

    Thanks for the reply!

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    What car?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRGie View Post
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    What car?
    Wrangler Sahara JL, 2018.
    Last edited by 300havoc; 01-29-2019 at 09:17 PM.

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    Find out what the exact rebates are. Then offer invoice + $250 - rebates

    I don’t know what Jeep has for internal manufacture rebates, but certain ones give the dealer a holdback (usually between 1-3% of msrp) and delivery assistance money (between $250-500).

    So when you’re buying a car at “invoice” the dealership is still making money.

    December was pretty shit for sales overall in Calgary so the dealership may be willing to entertain such aggressive offers. From the stores that I have insight on, Jan isn’t shaping up to be bad, so the dealer may tell you to fuck off. But since it’s a wrangler I’d be ready to walk and wait for another one.

    Also, have you looked at stores outside of Calgary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRGie View Post
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    Find out what the exact rebates are. Then offer invoice + $250 - rebates

    I don’t know what Jeep has for internal manufacture rebates, but certain ones give the dealer a holdback (usually between 1-3% of msrp) and delivery assistance money (between $250-500).

    So when you’re buying a car at “invoice” the dealership is still making money.

    December was pretty shit for sales overall in Calgary so the dealership may be willing to entertain such aggressive offers. From the stores that I have insight on, Jan isn’t shaping up to be bad, so the dealer may tell you to fuck off. But since it’s a wrangler I’d be ready to walk and wait for another one.

    Also, have you looked at stores outside of Calgary?
    Thanks for your suggestion.

    I for sure don't mind walking and waiting, I don't *Need* a new car, I *Want* a new car.

    I have looked out of Calgary, but it is hard to find the Sahara with the packages I want together, let alone without all the extra fluff that I honestly don't care about so I don't mind waiting it out. Thats why I also don't mind trying to order from the factory, but I feel like there would be less wiggle room for negotiation, plus id have to wait longer. I was thinking the 2018 because of the want to possibly clear them from the lot as the 2019's come in.

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    I have found that vehicles in Edmonton are cheaper than they are in Calgary.

    Also, other members have had great luck buying their cars from Vancouver. @shakalaka

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    Since you are looking at buying a Jeep I thought my experience with purchasing could give you an idea. Between my father in law and I, we’ve bought 4 new trucks in the last 4 years. I bought one last spring and the other was in summer of 2016, I find that deals on financing are cyclical particularly with Chrysler, if I was going to buy another truck I will definitely wait until summer. That is when they usually offer 0% financing on top of discounts, if that is what you are looking for. I also went in to the dealership with multiple quotes from other dealers local and outside Calgary (best quote I got was from a Sherwood Park) I ended up purchasing locally, the dealer here beat the quote and gave me other incentives to buy.

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    I don't know how effective it is? Maybe others could chime in if they have experience with it. But what I have heard of people doing that claim to have success, is to just email 4 dealers on the same email, give a description of what they're looking for, and that they'd like to work with the dealer most willing to work with them.

    From personal experience with Dodge, I did the online builder like you as well. I was buying a Ram2500 diesel. Online builder came out to something like 54,000$ when factoring in the "Free Cummins Upgrade"(so would've been around 63k no incentives included). I phoned the one dealer that had the truck I wanted and said I was interested in talking numbers. They told me it was a 72,000$ sticker. I said I didn't really care what the supposed sticker said, the online build tool right from Dodge says otherwise. They went back and forth with phone calls and "running things by the manager". Managed to settle on 59,000$ out the door price, tax and fees all included. So I'd say the price you're seeing online is probably more accurate than the dealers list price, it was in my case. And you have a lot more leverage since you're looking at a dime a dozen volume vehicle, not a 1 of 2 left in the country vehicle. They don't have to know that you're hung up on a very specific optioning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    I don't know how effective it is? Maybe others could chime in if they have experience with it. But what I have heard of people doing that claim to have success, is to just email 4 dealers on the same email, give a description of what they're looking for, and that they'd like to work with the dealer most willing to work with them.

    From personal experience with Dodge, I did the online builder like you as well. I was buying a Ram2500 diesel. Online builder came out to something like 54,000$ when factoring in the "Free Cummins Upgrade"(so would've been around 63k no incentives included). I phoned the one dealer that had the truck I wanted and said I was interested in talking numbers. They told me it was a 72,000$ sticker. I said I didn't really care what the supposed sticker said, the online build tool right from Dodge says otherwise. They went back and forth with phone calls and "running things by the manager". Managed to settle on 59,000$ out the door price, tax and fees all included. So I'd say the price you're seeing online is probably more accurate than the dealers list price, it was in my case. And you have a lot more leverage since you're looking at a dime a dozen volume vehicle, not a 1 of 2 left in the country vehicle. They don't have to know that you're hung up on a very specific optioning.
    I kind of do something similar but I don't do it through an email. When I bought my truck I called up 5 different dealerships on Monday and told them the exact truck and package I was looking for, what things I was willing to give up or have variations of, and what options were "must haves". I then told them I would give them the week to see what they had (or could source) that fit what I was looking for, and work through their numbers because I didn't want to negotiate or go back and forth and waste each others time doing the song and dance of "well let me talk to my manager". I let them know I expected one number when I called back on Friday and I would be in to buy the truck that day to whom ever had the best deal. At the end of the day I was quoted 3 very very different prices for the same truck, 2 comparable prices for slightly different options. As an added bonus I had a Maclin Ford sales rep call me dishonest and that he can't believe I'd rather deal with shaddy dealerships over him when I asked him to stop calling me every day with a different price and deals on vehicles I wasn't interested in (SUVs, cars, older pick up trucks). I was happy with that how that worked out for me in that situation.

    For my wife's RDX I took the print out off of CarCostCanada.ca (I think) and used that to negotiate. It made it a lot easier because the numbers we were talking about before versus the numbers after were much different. However they were not willing to negotiate finance rate at all.

    If I were to ever buy a new vehicle again, I'd be going to small town dealerships in Saskatchewan. https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/409...t=saskatchewan
    Originally posted by rage2
    ...Last thing I want is someone reading my posts and losing their cock over it...
    Originally posted by Sugarphreak
    Meh, they all look like Jackie Chan to me
    Originally posted by ExtraSlow
    You dudes have some squeaky clean assholes. I commend you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schurchill39 View Post
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    I kind of do something similar but I don't do it through an email. When I bought my truck I called up 5 different dealerships on Monday and told them the exact truck and package I was looking for, what things I was willing to give up or have variations of, and what options were "must haves". I then told them I would give them the week to see what they had (or could source) that fit what I was looking for, and work through their numbers because I didn't want to negotiate or go back and forth and waste each others time doing the song and dance of "well let me talk to my manager". I let them know I expected one number when I called back on Friday and I would be in to buy the truck that day to whom ever had the best deal. At the end of the day I was quoted 3 very very different prices for the same truck, 2 comparable prices for slightly different options. As an added bonus I had a Maclin Ford sales rep call me dishonest and that he can't believe I'd rather deal with shaddy dealerships over him when I asked him to stop calling me every day with a different price and deals on vehicles I wasn't interested in (SUVs, cars, older pick up trucks). I was happy with that how that worked out for me in that situation.

    For my wife's RDX I took the print out off of CarCostCanada.ca (I think) and used that to negotiate. It made it a lot easier because the numbers we were talking about before versus the numbers after were much different. However they were not willing to negotiate finance rate at all.

    If I were to ever buy a new vehicle again, I'd be going to small town dealerships in Saskatchewan. https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/409...t=saskatchewan

    Carscostcanada.ca is a site I've heard good reviews about. But I paid to use it once for a Jeep GC SRT8. It seemed like complete horseshit to me, because the carscost dealer listed price was about 2000$ lower than MSRP. I don't think there is any way Dodge is making that little of a margin on those. That's a one off incident, but it definitely put a bad taste in my mouth about using that service again.

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    I just purchased a truck for my wife a few weeks ago. This was my process:

    1. I researched the exact truck/options I wanted.

    2. Emailed 3 dealerships in town and 1 out of town with the details and said I prefer to deal via email and I am only interested in the best all in price. So if you have any extra fees please include them all.

    3. Had to reiterate last step after 3 of the 4 dealers said they would love for me to come in and take a look at the truck and they could get me the best deal.

    4. After I got the offers from them I narrowed it down to two dealerships. Went into one of them and the manager came and introduced himself and said we could get a deal done today but they wanted me to write out my requested options on their offer sheet. So we did this and I gave me them my offer and we agreed on a price (which was actually lower then the emailed price by $500). He calls salesperson over and says we have a deal write it up. They ask my to sign and they omitted 4k worth of options. No clue what they were thinking here. Maybe trying to rip me off or just decided to ignore the offer sheet they wanted me to specify my options on. At this point I said I have an offer from another dealership and gave them the exact price but I'll buy it here today if you match it. They said it was impossible that the other dealership has to be losing money. I've wasted to much time at this point and just left.

    5. Called the other dealership, went in and they honored the price they emailed me and I bought the truck. Should have just went there first.

    6. Dealer from step 4 called me back and said to come back in. I advised them I already bought a truck. Dude lost his shit saying they would have matched the price. I didn't even want to waste my time explaining to him at this point how much of a time waste they were.

    As for negotiating finance rates I've never seen this done before however some companies do have loyalty/conquest offers. So if you've had a previous vehicle with them you can get a discounted rate. Or with Toyota if you own a different vehicle they give you a conquest discounted rate.

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    Sounds like my experience with Maclin Ford.
    Originally posted by rage2
    ...Last thing I want is someone reading my posts and losing their cock over it...
    Originally posted by Sugarphreak
    Meh, they all look like Jackie Chan to me
    Originally posted by ExtraSlow
    You dudes have some squeaky clean assholes. I commend you.

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    Always negotiate from the bottom up with full transparency. Get them to show you a Car Cost Canada report or their dealer invoice - if they don't, find a new dealership, because you are going to see it regardless, so by them not showing it to you it's basically just a big F-U. Then they want to be your best friend again right after, as if you forgot that just happened. No thanks.

    What I usually do is calculate the price I am willing to pay with a fair dealer profit, and then float the offer around via phone/email to see who bites. Many dealers won't even bother to reply, which is shocking.

    Most dealers will take Invoice + $500, or less if they want to hit sales numbers targets. I wouldn't even go to the dealership unless the final purchase price was agreed to in writing before hand because dealing with them is often so painful. Make sure you are not paying any admin fees whatsoever - often you don't find out about these until you sit down to sign. If they want to sell you the vehicle below cost and add their money-grab fees instead, let them as long as your final price is the same. Do not pay for a block heater, or glass etching, or "key replacement", or locking lug nuts, and get them to throw in winter mats as it costs them almost nothing. Decline all "extras" such as paint protection, interior protection, etc. as that is where their largest margins are and the products are useless. Decline 3M unless they will beat a third party shop's price and you're confident they can do just as good of an install, which is incredibly unlikely at a Dodge dealer.

    Ask about dealer incentives and research them for yourself - sometimes dealers try to keep these for themselves.

    Talk to every dealer in town and surrounding Calgary, usually out of town is the best price and sometimes the Calgary dealers will match. If they refuse to deal with you over the phone or email, find someone who will - they just want you to come down so they can pressure you into a decision you're not ready to make. If they want to do the "manager dance", find a new dealer. Even if they sold you the car below cost they are still making money on holdbacks / kickbacks / volume incentives / warranty/service so ignore their sob stories. I can only imagine what shady tricks a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer has waiting for you - good luck.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-30-2019 at 11:15 AM.

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    Some things I do...

    1. Email only. All offers in an email chain with PDF documents attached.

    2. Get build sheets for an in stock vehicle. Only negotiate on vehicles where the VIN is clear to all involved with the build sheet attached.

    3. Only discuss otd numbers. Tell them up front they can mix and match fees above the line as they see fit.

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    Mitsu should offer up his car negotiation skills as a side hustle
    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Never deal with a Calgary dealership as your first choice.

    1. Find dealerships outside Calgary, call them. Introduce yourself, then email them for the negotiation.
    2. Talk over the phone, be knowledgeable, and don't be attached to the said vehicle, ask them for the PDF copy of the Quote with all the packages.
    3. Place a deposit if you agree on the Quote, ensure it's refundable just in case they switch-a-roo.
    4. Fly/drive to pick up the said vehicle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Mitsu should offer up his car negotiation skills as a side hustle
    I've successfully haggled on behalf of a work colleague and myself as well. And this is with the BMW dealers in Calgary, before the big shake-up/re-org by the Dilawri Group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schurchill39 View Post
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    Sounds like my experience with Maclin Ford.
    They told me there is no way i paid what i did for my 13 F150. I won't be returning.

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