Liberal Scandals Piling up

[Maxx Mazda]

Quite the speech by Rempel. Wow.

[kertejud2]

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No, we are just seeing you be a classic retard

By doing so, she has gotten what she has wanted without the Liberals absolutely losing the next election. If people were going to jail over this, they'd be done. She's played the long game well, she is still a liberal at the end of the day and believes in their cause. As such, a non-criminal investigation and airing of the problem to the public meets her needs sufficiently.

But you couldn't understand that because I firmly believe you have no fucking clue how people function

So are you saying there is something criminal and she lied about it to preserve her party (and even her own reputation), or is she right that there isn’t anything illegal?

If it’s the former, how is she credible and why would you want a criminal investigation to be dependent on the account of a dishonest person who is willing to lie for personal gain? If it’s the latter, what’s the benefit for people pushing for a criminal investigation/wanting PM to resign over criminal activity if nothing criminal took place? Can’t have it both ways, which is my point.

Focus on the problem, which is the ease at which corruption can be made perfectly legal and the overlap between cabinet positions and positions that should have more autonomy. I mean it’s great that legislation was passed to catch people in a scandal but how about take the next step and push something that would actually make the cause for that scandal a bit less legal in the first place and maybe deter one? Would the whole DPA for SNC Lavelin be just fine if a prosecutor had made the decision from the get-go, or is the fact that was able to be put on the table at all the crux of the problem in the first place? If the scandal is that there is corruption, why isn’t the focus on how to actually prevent corruption rather than try to temporarily remove the party from government?

[Buster]

The most reasonable interpretation that I have heard is that the dpa did not apply to sncl in this case. Applying it would be unlawful application of the law.

So in addition to all of your valid points about corruption it also sounds like they were coercing jwr and roussel to do something that was illegal.

[killramos]

One of the biggest learnings that I have had from this situation is how backwards our selection of Attorney General is.

I never knew that they were not only MP's, but also the Justice Minister, and also a Member of Cabinet. Our AG is literally as partisan as you can get, 0 even spectre of independence. No wonder we have issues untaggling that ethical nightmare...

Pretty hard to make any argument that the Canadian Judicial system isn't entirely politicized.

[kertejud2]

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The most reasonable interpretation that I have heard is that the dpa did not apply to sncl in this case. Applying it would be unlawful application of the law.

So in addition to all of your valid points about corruption it also sounds like they were coercing jwr and roussel to do something that was illegal.

Yes, but polished government officials don’t ask people to make decisions, they merely ‘strongly recommend they reconsider decisions based on specific, though hypothetical, consequences.’ If that person decides to apply the law that would be their own decision and it’d be up to the courts to decide if it was unlawful. The fact the decision would be designed to bypass the courts is a feature, not a bug, but also a part of the core issue. Is there even a way to actually challenge the law if it was applied incorrectly?

[duaner]

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MSN's homepage is just a bunch of clickbait garbage.

Clickbait is in the minority and for those who can differentiate clickbait from other sources, it actually brings together a variety of news sources onto one page. It's a decent page for bringing together news from around the world, Canadian news, local news, sports, business, automotive, etc.

[kertejud2]

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One of the biggest learnings that I have had from this situation is how backwards our selection of Attorney General is.

I never knew that they were not only MP's, but also the Justice Minister, and also a Member of Cabinet. Our AG is literally as partisan as you can get, 0 even spectre of independence. No wonder we have issues untaggling that ethical nightmare...

Pretty hard to make any argument that the Canadian Judicial system isn't entirely politicized.

The MoJ position being an MP is fine, they can make cabinet portfolios however they want (merge the MoJ and Minister of Public Safety making the most sense). It’s having the AG position being tied to it is the problem. The top law officer of The Crown shouldn’t be tied to the government at all, and definitely shouldn’t be affiliated with any party. Operate like the justices and Governor General. Appointed by the Crown at the recommendation of the PM but otherwise operates autonomously.

[duaner]

Did Trudeau win legitimately to begin with?

"Considering how narrow the margin of victory was in many seats, and considering how groups funded by U.S. billionaires sought to interfere in the election and destroy Canada’s energy industry, there are growing doubts about whether Trudeau actually won in a legitimate way."

https://www.spencerfernando.com/2019...P87_HkzxGnC8X8

It sure would explain why he dragged his feet on the pipelines and then ended up spending over $4 billion for nothing.

[Buster]

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Yes, but polished government officials don’t ask people to make decisions, they merely ‘strongly recommend they reconsider decisions based on specific, though hypothetical, consequences.’ If that person decides to apply the law that would be their own decision and it’d be up to the courts to decide if it was unlawful. The fact the decision would be designed to bypass the courts is a feature, not a bug, but also a part of the core issue. Is there even a way to actually challenge the law if it was applied incorrectly?

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The MoJ position being an MP is fine, they can make cabinet portfolios however they want (merge the MoJ and Minister of Public Safety making the most sense). It’s having the AG position being tied to it is the problem. The top law officer of The Crown shouldn’t be tied to the government at all, and definitely shouldn’t be affiliated with any party. Operate like the justices and Governor General. Appointed by the Crown at the recommendation of the PM but otherwise operates autonomously.

I don't think we are disagreeing on the legality issue. I'm simply pondering the implications of coercing someone to do something illegal. In many cases that type of behaviour actually IS illegal - you can't tell someone to kill someone for instance. Or Nixon's behaviour for that matter. I'm assuming that JWR had good reason to say that this wasn't illegal obstruction - but she did not get a chance to elaborate on that point. My guess is that they did nothing illegal in this case. I wonder if the situation would be different if Roussel has applied the law incorrectly under duress from the PMO. In this case people forget that the correct decision was actually made.

Your second point is very important and speaks to the underlying inadequacy of Canada's constitution and confederation. It is poorly designed with respect to dividing the three branches of government. The PMO with a majority is an emperor over the legislative branch, the executive branch, and as we have seen (usually) the judicial branch. Combine this with a feature errrr, bug, which also concentrates the voting power within one region, and you have a very un-democratic democracy. Your point strengthens this perspective substantially. Now where is that separation thread again?

[revelations]

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Liberal spin machine.

Already have heard a few people say "well, it wasn't illegal".

Nice bar for the PMO

Unfortunately this is all true. It wasnt illegal and thus the RCMP will just go 'meh, it wasn't appropriate but not much we can do'.

Just add this to the list of why never to vote for the Quebec-pandering fliberals - and move on.

[ExtraSlow]

Our system of government is designed from the ground up to be controlled by a small number of political elites. AG being MOJ, being sitting MP and being a member of the cabinet is designed to be a fully controlled political office.

[kertejud2]

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Our system of government is designed from the ground up to be controlled by a small number of political elites. AG being MOJ, being sitting MP and being a member of the cabinet is designed to be a fully controlled political office.

The guy who set it up that way was also Prime Minister, appropriately enough.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, it's funny how people complain about the "flaws" in our country are actually deliberate features. Stuff like the excessive senate representation for eastern provinces. That was never supposed to be proportional to population or land area or economic size.

Anyone who wants to get really mad should look at how much federal money is spent in PEI per person vs any western province.

[Tik-Tok]

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Did Trudeau win legitimately to begin with?

"Considering how narrow the margin of victory was in many seats, and considering how groups funded by U.S. billionaires sought to interfere in the election and destroy Canada’s energy industry, there are growing doubts about whether Trudeau actually won in a legitimate way."

https://www.spencerfernando.com/2019...P87_HkzxGnC8X8

It sure would explain why he dragged his feet on the pipelines and then ended up spending over $4 billion for nothing.

Has any world leader won 100% legimately? Everyone is always fucking with other nations shit.

[revelations]

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Has any world leader won 100% legimately? Everyone is always fucking with other nations shit.

So true - for sure the Russians have been (indirectly) involved in American elections (and vice versa) - its just a question of HOW MUCH involvement is an issue.

Rumor (heard this from a high-end corp client downtown)= the NDP in Alberta were given money by the Russians (again, not directly).

If true, no doubt, other NDP movements as well.

[killramos]

lol the Russians are literally the 21st ( and majority of the 20th... ) century boogeymen.

I would be way more concerned about what going on in our backyards than fall back to that scapegoat.

[phreezee]

Friends helping friends.

Jacques Bougie is on the board for SNC and McCain Foods (Bill Morneau's wife), and a mentor for The Trudeau Foundation.

http://www.snclavalin.com/en/about-u...es-bougie.aspx

http://www.trudeaufoundation.ca/en/c...jacques-bougie

Edited for Kertejud2 corrections

[dirtsniffer]

I'm surprised this isn't in the news more

[killramos]

Something something something Liberal Mains Stream Media

[kertejud2]

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I'm surprised this isn't in the news more

Looks like he was just a mentor with the Trudeau foundation for a couple scholars, not a Director, and that was back in 2011. So a pretty mundane connection given what else is going on with the overlap between SNC higher ups and the government.