Calgary winters, optimal tread pattern for compact snow/ice

[revelations]

This me totally geeking out, but I want a winter tire that:

• optimized for these exact conditions (cold, snow with ice underneath)
• compromises wet/dry grip for optimal grip in THESE conditions
• studded

I've narrowed it down to two choices, but I am not getting a clear answer with regards to tread pattern. Some of these tires are more intended towards the 0c end of 'winter' spectrum so they might compromise extreme cold weather performance?

Which of these would be optimal in these given conditions? Square blocks or not?

[ExtraSlow]

Rubber compound is probably most important. Which one has the worst treadwear rating? That's the one you want, the softest least durable rubber.

Also, there are differences in number of studs for different tires. More studs is better, and again, probably more important than tread block shape.

Also, what vehicle?

[ThePenIsMightier]

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This me totally geeking out, but I want a winter tire that:

• optimized for these exact conditions (cold, snow with ice underneath)
• compromises wet/dry grip for optimal grip in THESE conditions
• studded

Do you mean fresh snow on ice? Compacted? How compacted? Moisture content? Etc etc etc.
Buying snow tires is easy. You buy Bridgestone Blizzaks or something slightly inferior and if performance in snow/ice matters (as it always should with winter tires) you stay far far away from "performance snow tires". In Blizzaks, those are the ones that start with LM.

Edit - I have repeatedly heard that the shape and pattern of tread blocks is more than 50% visual consumer appeal, so I would put zero thought into it.

[Tik-Tok]

Based on those sole two tread patterns.

The first if most of your driving is under 60km/h, the second if it's mostly above.

[Sentry]

The one on the right is what the cheapest possible china studded tires I run always look like, no matter what brand. And they work pretty well for the first year or two, then I sell them and buy another set lol

EDIT: 65 a tire for these. Going to run them this year and next and then sell them for 200-300 and get another set.

[revelations]

There is no real hard/fast rule it seems. The more curved variety appears more for water/slush evacuation, but thats not at all what I am after.

At speeds above 80kph, the studs will protrude a little more and help out so I am not too concerned about tire patterns as much at high speed vs. compact snow and ice in the city.

Also, more sipes is generally a good thing as well.

My impressions are that most winter tires are designed for where the large part of the North American population resides and they arent subject to extended -20c weather - but rather -5 to +5 winters.

[cyra1ax]

I would stay far, far away from the motomaster winters. Had them on two vehicles and was not impressed at all, barely better in our conditions than all seasons IMO.
I'd choose the second one, but what car you're putting them on matters as well. Looks like a GT Altimax series which IIRC uses an old tread pattern from someone else, I seem to think it's either from Gisavled or Hankook.
+1 for blizzaks, I'm a Nokian Hakka guy but the blizzaks have a huge rep for a reason. I've been hearing more and more of my friends be dissatisfied by the X-Ice3's lately as well.

[revelations]

Yea the X Ice have a odd rep - plus I am not a fan of studless tires at ALL - having tried some decent Toyo's and then higher end Continental Extremewintercontacts.

When I switched to cheap studded tires, it was night and day difference on the glare ice/compacted snow at intersections - esp on hilly starts.

[BokCh0y]

The blizzak LM's I found to be great performance winters.....if you're using them in light snow or cold weather with dry roads. They're great for that kind of stuff, but as soon as you need them for ice and hard packed snow, they're terrible. I much prefer the regular blizzaks with the ultrasoft compound when it comes to everything except cold and dry pavement. They definitely aren't performance grade but they're amazing for ice, snow, hard packed snow, etc.

[revelations]

Again, with bridgestone - they offer different tread patterns: square vs curve

LM60



w965 (light truck tire)

[BokCh0y]

Actually the Blizzak DMV1's are great for something in between the LM's and W's.

I have these on my SUV and they've been solid for ice, snow, hard packed, and dry pavement and the wear isn't bad at all.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Actually the Blizzak DMV1's are great for something in between the LM's and W's.

I have these on my SUV and they've been solid for ice, snow, hard packed, and dry pavement and the wear isn't bad at all.

Me too, but I wouldn't call these "between LM & WS". I think of them as the heavier, SUV version of WS. To me, they are just as good as the WS80's I have on my other car.
The LM's I had years ago were exactly like no-season tires on snow or ice. So were the Pirelli SnoSport garbage that came with another car I had. I think they have rebranded them now.
Again, I firmly believe tread block pattern and design is about consumer feels and you shouldn't be considering it. Look at the radical differences in some of the higher end summer tires that all have arbitrarily the same performance. BFG KDW compared to Toyo r888, Giugiaro, Ventura, etc. It's about sexy tires while the rubber compound actually is doing the work.

[relyt92]

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I would stay far, far away from the motomaster winters. Had them on two vehicles and was not impressed at all, barely better in our conditions than all seasons IMO.
I'd choose the second one, but what car you're putting them on matters as well. Looks like a GT Altimax series which IIRC uses an old tread pattern from someone else, I seem to think it's either from Gisavled or Hankook.
+1 for blizzaks, I'm a Nokian Hakka guy but the blizzaks have a huge rep for a reason. I've been hearing more and more of my friends be dissatisfied by the X-Ice3's lately as well.

I ran a set of WS70's over the last 6 winters on 3 vehicles. I had a set of XI-3s installed on Monday, and I remember the Blizzaks being better when they were brand new. I'm honestly not that impressed so far either with the X-Ice.

[BokCh0y]

Don’t know why so much crave about the x-ice. I have them on my Mini Cooper and really, they’re quite similar, although a bit better than my all seasons. maybe just me?

Toyo’s felt like they were floating.

Michellelin’s felt like better all seasons.

Dunlop graphics have been great but i haven’t purchased a set in over 10 years so not sure how good they are now.

The motomasters I put on my sons civic were good for soft packed snow and dry pavement, but not the greatest on ice and hard pack.

[max_boost]

Yea agreed lol not the best reviews on X-Ice but I've never had them.

Blizzak DMV1 for SUV and WS80 for the cars.

I don't even want to try anything else.

[revelations]

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Yea agreed lol not the best reviews on X-Ice but I've never had them.

Blizzak DMV1 for SUV and WS80 for the cars.

I don't even want to try anything else.

Without studs, in these type of conditions that we have RIGHT NOW (compacted snow/ice at intersections) you will always give up 10-20% braking distance, than to those with studs.

https://info.kaltire.com/are-studded-tires-for-you/

I'll gladly give up 2-5% stopping distances in dry conditions, than 10-20% right now.

[spikerS]

Random thought.

Why not contact a tire shop in a country that has the craziest winter conditions that are usually worse than what we would face here?

Anchorage, Alaska? Iceland? Greenland? norway, Switzerland...etc...just maybe reach out over facebook messenger and ask what they find the best, and what they sell the most of?

[cyra1ax]

+1 for Spikers' comment.

Why don't you just get Hakka 9?

[rage2]

I got a set of the new Pilot Alpin 5’s, huge improvement over the PA4s. Packed snow, black ice, feels like a non studded winter tire. Only time they felt like a performance winter was pure ice at intersections that others have shined up. Was blown away how much grip I had everywhere else and was able to lay down 450hp no problems. I drove the Wagon back to back which has Hakka 9s and aside from the ice at intersection stops, it was pretty close.

Haven’t found reviews of the PA5s, it’s like Michelin didn’t market them at all.

[HiTempguy1]

Tread design has two goals, noise and clearing the tread.

A swept pattern clears the tread better, and because the pattern is always changing, the vibration from the tire is minimized.

For pure forward and braking traction, blocks are the way to go (the left).

Look at offroad race tires for clues. Essentially in soft road conditions (gravel, mud, snow) you want as many hard edges as possible perpendicular to the direction of travel. This gives you maximum mechanical grip advantage.

Compounds play a large part in ice grip, but studs are mostly superior.

I say MOSTLY, as studs are designed to create precise holes in ice. These are most effective when the ice is soft (above -20*c).

In THEORY, there is the technical possibility on pure ice, no snow, that a sufficiently soft non-studded tire could have better grip than a studded tire. The reasoning for this is as the stud punctures the very cold, brittle ice (ice gets more brittle the colder it gets), the hole that is created fractures the ice around it, so the stud no longer is penetrating a solid surface.

Edit-

Another important point to remember, I highly recommend against factory studded tires. They are garbage. To reduce noise, the manufacturers purposefully undersize the studs. Nokian is notorious for this, I actually had to laugh at one of the factory rally teams because they bought factory studded Nokians in Alberta (studded tire availability in BC is low on the coast).

When I picked them up for them, I had a chuckle. I've specialized for years in optimal stud and tire cutting techniques for our type of racing, had a lot of phone calls when the national ruleset changed because I was a vocal critic of the non-studded (and insanely expensive) winter tires others were running.

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Random thought.

Why not contact a tire shop in a country that has the craziest winter conditions that are usually worse than what we would face here?

Anchorage, Alaska? Iceland? Greenland? norway, Switzerland...etc...just maybe reach out over facebook messenger and ask what they find the best, and what they sell the most of?

Because businesses are interested in making money, not necessarily on providing you the absolute best solution. Especially when, as a customer, all that matters is the end result meets your expectations. And businesses make claims all the time (this is my best seller) when it may not be... Or the tire sells well because the price/performance ratio is good.

OP asked for the best. The best will be the blockiest, softest tread with good siping and studs that aren't rinky dink like Nokian factory teenie studs.