Calgary winters, optimal tread pattern for compact snow/ice

[nzwasp]

I notice that driving around in this hard packed snow at -25 doesnt the studded hakka 9s dont help too much. Im still sliding quite a bit (I can drive faster and stop sooner and I feel more confident on the studded tires) I got the tires new in november but the studs wore down and although they do peek up a bit (you can feel the studs if you run your hand over the tires) its not like they bite into this type of snow. It seems more like the tire is all frozen up. With studded tires how often do you replace the studs?

[HiSpec]

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Tread design has two goals, noise and clearing the tread.

A swept pattern clears the tread better, and because the pattern is always changing, the vibration from the tire is minimized.

For pure forward and braking traction, blocks are the way to go (the left).

Look at offroad race tires for clues. Essentially in soft road conditions (gravel, mud, snow) you want as many hard edges as possible perpendicular to the direction of travel. This gives you maximum mechanical grip advantage.

Compounds play a large part in ice grip, but studs are mostly superior.

I say MOSTLY, as studs are designed to create precise holes in ice. These are most effective when the ice is soft (above -20*c).

In THEORY, there is the technical possibility on pure ice, no snow, that a sufficiently soft non-studded tire could have better grip than a studded tire. The reasoning for this is as the stud punctures the very cold, brittle ice (ice gets more brittle the colder it gets), the hole that is created fractures the ice around it, so the stud no longer is penetrating a solid surface.

Edit-

Another important point to remember, I highly recommend against factory studded tires. They are garbage. To reduce noise, the manufacturers purposefully undersize the studs. Nokian is notorious for this, I actually had to laugh at one of the factory rally teams because they bought factory studded Nokians in Alberta (studded tire availability in BC is low on the coast).

When I picked them up for them, I had a chuckle. I've specialized for years in optimal stud and tire cutting techniques for our type of racing, had a lot of phone calls when the national ruleset changed because I was a vocal critic of the non-studded (and insanely expensive) winter tires others were running.



Because businesses are interested in making money, not necessarily on providing you the absolute best solution. Especially when, as a customer, all that matters is the end result meets your expectations. And businesses make claims all the time (this is my best seller) when it may not be... Or the tire sells well because the price/performance ratio is good.

OP asked for the best. The best will be the blockiest, softest tread with good siping and studs that aren't rinky dink like Nokian factory teenie studs.

Is it possible to re-stud factory tires with beefier studs?

[blownz]

My studded Hakka's sure helped on the right turn from Deerfoot south onto memorial on Saturday. That corner was slippery. All three vehicles following behind me spun around and came to a stop before starting up again. Amazing they didn't hit each other lol

[prae]

I run DM-V1s on my F150s, and have found them excellent. I put a set of DM-V1s on my wife's RDX, and have to say I'm a little disappointed in their handling. Could be the relative "lightness" of the car, but it sure felt way more loose and sketchy compared to the same tread on my truck.

Always liked Yoko ITGO72s on my smaller trucks and SUVs (square tread), but I think they're since discontinued?

[revelations]

Again, with the HAKKA 9, you are looking at a tire that is more designed for Toronto winters - channels to move slush and water away. Makes sense as that is where the majority of the population is.

If what HITEMP guy says is accurate, it would also make sense for them to cater to that specific market with quieter studs.



Again, ICE rated tires (cold compact snow and ice) tend to have studs and square blocks - take note of the lack of sipes on the HAKKA9 as well, in comparison to these two below.

Continental ICE



Pirellii ICE

[ExtraSlow]

Can I object to the general premise of this thread? Typical calgary conditions are 100 days of bare pavement and 10 days of ice or packed snow.

[revelations]

I would say perhaps 20-30 days of ice/snow per winter. The major routes (DF glenmore) are ok but in my neck of the woods, the Canyon Meadows drive is still a skating rink down to the stop lights.

Even then, I want to have the best grip possible in the worst conditions - and sacrifice some dry road grip.

[tirebob]

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Tread design has two goals, noise and clearing the tread.

A swept pattern clears the tread better, and because the pattern is always changing, the vibration from the tire is minimized.

For pure forward and braking traction, blocks are the way to go (the left).

Look at offroad race tires for clues. Essentially in soft road conditions (gravel, mud, snow) you want as many hard edges as possible perpendicular to the direction of travel. This gives you maximum mechanical grip advantage.

Compounds play a large part in ice grip, but studs are mostly superior.

I say MOSTLY, as studs are designed to create precise holes in ice. These are most effective when the ice is soft (above -20*c).

In THEORY, there is the technical possibility on pure ice, no snow, that a sufficiently soft non-studded tire could have better grip than a studded tire. The reasoning for this is as the stud punctures the very cold, brittle ice (ice gets more brittle the colder it gets), the hole that is created fractures the ice around it, so the stud no longer is penetrating a solid surface.

There is a lot of truth to these observations! The only thing I might add in regards to soft compounds and high sipe density helping over studs (especially in the extreme cold) is that ice really is not so much a slippery substance on its own. When ice is compressed under weight it forms a thin layer of water on the ice making it extra slippery, and when compounds stay soft and the super high density sipes open up and spread apart so when a tire is slipping and/or spinning the sipes sweep the water off of the surface of the ice (like a squeegee on a window) drying the surface giving a heightened level of adhesion. I personally like running studded tires but I accept that they are not doing a lot in conditions like we have been seeing (extreme cold) since the ice is so brittle and chippy so I adjust my driving accordingly.

Because businesses are interested in making money, not necessarily on providing you the absolute best solution. Especially when, as a customer, all that matters is the end result meets your expectations. And businesses make claims all the time (this is my best seller) when it may not be... Or the tire sells well because the price/performance ratio is good.

I know the automotive industry is prone to making all sorts of false claim in pursuit of sales, but I do like to think there are some of us who do actually try and make the best possible advice based on the consumers needs rather than simply profit margins etc..

OP asked for the best. The best will be the blockiest, softest tread with good siping and studs that aren't rinky dink like Nokian factory teenie studs.

One consideration I always ask people is to how they drive and whether they are willing to give up on dry road handling feel and performance to improve winter bite. It is one thing to have the absolute highest level of severe winter traction, but many people don't always realize what they are giving up to get it and instead are really trying to find a satisfying balance between that severe traction along with relative ride quality and daily use feel. It would be awesome to find a product that does it all but it just doesn't exist. People always surprise me too. It is always amazing to me how 10 guys with the same cars and the same tires vehemently disagree on how a tire worked and performed! lol

[Rocket1k78]

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Can I object to the general premise of this thread? Typical calgary conditions are 100 days of bare pavement and 10 days of ice or packed snow.

I gotta agree. Calgary's unique because we get a ton of chinooks and for the most part the roads are pretty dry, getting a tire that works in Alaska or wherever its icy and cold consistently might not be the best unless you can afford to replace them way sooner

[rage2]

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I gotta agree. Calgary's unique because we get a ton of chinooks and for the most part the roads are pretty dry, getting a tire that works in Alaska or wherever its icy and cold consistently might not be the best unless you can afford to replace them way sooner

Performance winter FTW.

[revelations]

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I gotta agree. Calgary's unique because we get a ton of chinooks and for the most part the roads are pretty dry, getting a tire that works in Alaska or wherever its icy and cold consistently might not be the best unless you can afford to replace them way sooner

I would suggest that is not really the case. Even in dry conditions, a winter tire, with its cold weather compound, will not excessively wear out in sub 0 weather.

Once temps start to climb about that 7c mark - then its a different story.

[max_boost]

Got a rental car with all seasons, I have lost my driving confidence lol

Can’t wait to get my car fixed and blizzak back