Do you know who is actually building your home?

[themack89]

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There should be more liability, there should be more quality control.

This is why there exists permitting processes, design reviews by the city, and then a retained engineer as the owner's representative is supposed to do regular field reviews of the workmanship.

Someone is cutting corners, but with the number of checks and balances that exist during a construction project, it's tough to tell who it is. Possibly in an event like this, it's everyone.

The City is involved
The Architect aka Owner's Rep is involved
The Mech/Elec engineer is involved
Offices of the General Contractor are involved
Offices of the Subcontractors are involved
All of the journeymen in the field reading the prints and bossing around their apprentices

Everyone is supposed to police each other. Someone definitely wasn't doing their job here.

Source: I own an earthworks/utility contracting business, but I work on the office side.

[88CRX]

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This is why there exists permitting processes, design reviews by the city, and then a retained engineer as the owner's representative is supposed to do regular field reviews of the workmanship.

Someone is cutting corners, but with the number of checks and balances that exist during a construction project, it's tough to tell who it is. Possibly in an event like this, it's everyone.

The City is involved
The Architect aka Owner's Rep is involved
The Mech/Elec engineer is involved
Offices of the General Contractor are involved
Offices of the Subcontractors are involved
All of the journeymen in the field reading the prints and bossing around their apprentices

Everyone is supposed to police each other. Someone definitely wasn't doing their job here.

Source: I own an earthworks/utility contracting business, but I work on the office side.

City carries zero liability... despite the fact that they rule on code interpretations AND review/approve the permit drawings AND review/sign off on the construction on site.
The Architect carries liability but only does periodic field reviews to ensure construction is following the construction documents (drawings/specs). They are not on site policing construction every day. They also do not approve construction on site as they aren't there to see everything get pieced together. The wording of their responsibility is very clearly written as they cannot be on site to see every single envelope detail/lap/wrap (as there are 1000's of them).
The S/M/E engineering carry liability as well for their scopes. But again they are also only doing periodic review to ensure construction is following their design.

The general contractor is ultimately responsible for ensuring the building is built as per the constructions documents. Full stop.

Now in this case (and any other case similar to this) everyone (literally everyone) will get sued.

Every single one of those condo projects should have a fully engaged building envelope consultant who is on site reviewing mock ups and working directly with the subs to ensure they understand how their specific scope of work ties into the complete building envelope. But envelope consultants aren't cheap and some builders straight up dont want the hassle of working with one.

If the province wants to resolve this issue they would mandate the involvement of a registered building envelope consultant on all condo projects. Its pretty much that simple.

[gwill]

those checks and balances dont happen and when something gets missed everyone blames someone else!! In one of my rentals we had the builder Install a water line on the exterior of the wall with no insulation that exploded. Thankfully it was covered under warranty.

Recently we realized many drains for our parkade arent tied into the weeping tile and dont drain anywhere.. how the hell does that happen?

Through out the years while the place was under warranty we realized most of the trades that worked on the building had actually gone bankrupt or closed their businesses.

I could go on and on on how the builders couldnt care about checks and balances and how the inspectors are useless. The builders hope the boards wont sue and for the most part they dont.

[89coupe]

It’s as bad or worse with the all the infills, townhomes, and row condos going up through-out our city. The biggest trend I’m seeing right now is all these small builders buying up corner lots to do row style townhomes. Throwing them up as fast possible, using the cheapest materials they can find to try and maximize their return. It blows my mind how poorly they are constructed and the garbage they are using these days for finishing materials.

[msommers]

Yeah I'm been pretty surprised how fast infills go up, especially in the Bridgeland/Renfrew area. Same group/family of workers doing a majority from what I've seen. No idea on the quality but they sure do go up fast...

[themack89]

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Every single one of those condo projects should have a fully engaged building envelope consultant who is on site reviewing mock ups and working directly with the subs to ensure they understand how their specific scope of work ties into the complete building envelope. But envelope consultants aren't cheap and some builders straight up dont want the hassle of working with one.

You're saying on site? Everyday? I've literally never seen this as a requirement in any contract specs, and I've never seen a GC do this while acting as a sub.

I'm kind of curious now. Can you link me to a few of the major firms here in AB who do this?

[JRSC00LUDE]

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It blows my mind how poorly they are constructed and the garbage they are using these days for finishing materials.

I could have done my last project (single home) for about 40K less using the junk that some builders use, not a chance. Houses are our smallest revenue source, no interest in building garbage. But they clap together the cheap shit because there's a brainless market who only see price. If uninformed and cheapskate buyers didn't exist, shady builders would disappear.

- undercut the pricing on surrounding build
- maximize profit by building junk
- prey on first time home buyers
- profit

The usuall ?????? line isn't needed hahaha

[88CRX]

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You're saying on site? Everyday? I've literally never seen this as a requirement in any contract specs, and I've never seen a GC do this while acting as a sub.

I'm kind of curious now. Can you link me to a few of the major firms here in AB who do this?

Nope, not saying on site everyday. I agree that never happens nor will it ever happen. Way too cost prohibitive. But envelope engineers should be engaged throughout the entire project.

[88CRX]

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It’s as bad or worse with the all the infills, townhomes, and row condos going up through-out our city. The biggest trend I’m seeing right now is all these small builders buying up corner lots to do row style townhomes. Throwing them up as fast possible, using the cheapest materials they can find to try and maximize their return. It blows my mind how poorly they are constructed and the garbage they are using these days for finishing materials.

People don't want sprawl so guess what? Inner city infills, duplex and towns are the answer. The cities planning department is cracking down on suburban sprawl which means inner city development is going to happen. And density drives down cost. There isn't a different magical solution to adding housing to the market.

And what do you mean by cheap finishing materials? Crappy carpet? Linolium flooring? PLam counters? Nobody needs fancier shit then that and guess what, finishing materials like that create affordable housing. And if the builders can market that for higher prices (and people will buy it) then good for them.

Sub par construction methods aside the 'finishing materials' are a completely difference topic and really have nothing to do with builders getting sued.

[89coupe]

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People don't want sprawl so guess what? Inner city infills, duplex and towns are the answer. The cities planning department is cracking down on suburban sprawl which means inner city development is going to happen. And density drives down cost. There isn't a different magical solution to adding housing to the market.

And what do you mean by cheap finishing materials? Crappy carpet? Linolium flooring? PLam counters? Nobody needs fancier shit then that and guess what, finishing materials like that create affordable housing. And if the builders can market that for higher prices (and people will buy it) then good for them.

Sub par construction methods aside the 'finishing materials' are a completely difference topic and really have nothing to do with builders getting sued.

Oh they aren’t affordable, they are still asking ridiculous prices for garbage. Poor construction from the ground up. I feel bad for anyone buying most of the product being sold right now. Not enough knowledge being shared with consumers, very little due diligence being done.

There are only a handful of builders I would consider using these days. If a person had the time and smarts, they are better off doing it themselves. Way better quality control and a far superior product in the end.

[rvd]

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There are only a handful of builders I would consider using these days.

List em.

[88CRX]

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Oh they aren’t affordable, they are still asking ridiculous prices for garbage. Poor construction from the ground up. I feel bad for anyone buying most of the product being sold right now. Not enough knowledge being shared with consumers, very little due diligence being done.

There are only a handful of builders I would consider using these days. If a person had the time and smarts, they are better off doing it themselves. Way better quality control and a far superior product in the end.

Poor construction in what regards? You can build a pretty damn good building by following minimum code requirements that wont leak or rot or breakdown in a couple years if its done properly.

And 99.9% of the general population wouldn't have a clue where to start if they had to manage and build their own home. It would be a disaster. And even if you know what you were doing its a full time job for a year.

[89coupe]

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Poor construction in what regards? You can build a pretty damn good building by following minimum code requirements that wont leak or rot or breakdown in a couple years if its done properly.

And 99.9% of the general population wouldn't have a clue where to start if they had to manage and build their own home. It would be a disaster. And even if you know what you were doing its a full time job for a year.

Of course you can, but they don’t. Have you been on any of these sites, it’s a joke.

I disagree, anyone with half a brain and time would do a way better job. These subs that are hired don’t give a shit about quality control. All they care about is getting the job done as quickly as possible so they can get paid.

It almost sounds like you are in the business lol.

[Maxt]

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Yeah, but those problems will have been fixed by now.

No way lol, I am still going into 80's buildings and finding major deficiencies and half assed patches. A lot of buildings were finished in receivership, so many of the materials and equipment was furnished on the cheap from whatever was left in yards.

[Lex350]

Like most things there is the right way to build something and the cheap way. Unfortunately most people opt for the cheap way, don;'t do their homework and then bitch and are surprised when they end up with shit.

[02WhiteWs6]

Happened to me as well, leaking problems in the condo. Rotted the wood etc. Very expensive to fix. SO now, If i was to buy a new condo, I'd sell just before the 5 yr warranty is over. That's the problem, once warranty is over, it's a total waste of money to bring lawsuits to the table. The condo board should go over the condo with a fine tooth comb at year 4, potential leaking and water issues then should be addressed. Same with a new house. I bought 4 new builds in Calgary and each time, I find my self saying "is this the first time this company has build a house" It's like they just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. no one gives a crap.

[speedog]

Being in the construction industry for almost 4 years now has resulted in me seeing a lot of stuff. There are good and not so good builders out there just like there are good and not so good trades people out there. It doesn't matter if a company is big or small as either can be shitty or good.

Case in point, I did some work for a very small cabinet company last weekend where the previous installer had mounted an open shelf below a regular wall cabinet and that open shelf was not aligned with the cabinet above it.m it as more than obvious when one looked underneath because there was no gap at the front but a significant gap at the rear at the wall between the open shelf and the adjacent cabinet. The cabinet company's owners solution - adjust the doors of the cabinet above the open shelf so as to hide the mounting problem. My solution, did the work I was contracted to do and left that alone, the owner can explain to the customer why things aren't lining up.

As for condo builders, there are some that just slap them up and others that do pay attention to every little detail. Avalon is one multi-family builder that really pays attention to their product. One way to tell how things are managed with a larger builder is how they handle their on site safety - the more responsible builders will have very strict safety protocols and will police them every day.

Now fast forward to my last job which I finished up yesterday, a 4 day cabinet install at an acreage just north of the city. I've worked on this GC's projects before and every one of them is a joke. Day one and two, I am telling the electrician to move wiring as its's coming out of the walls at the wrong places. Day one and my first base cabinet, two sewer pipes coming into it that have no reason to be there, GC said to just install the cabinet and not worry about it. Day three, I had to uninstall three cabinets because if more electrical issues - the problem being the owner changing their mind and the GC forgetting things. Now the electrician did know about sone of this stuff but he didn't do anything about, probably because he's getting paid by the hour. Day two, after assembling the island I notice it's not centered below the lighting, moved it as need be while staying within code.

All during this installation, I had to cut outside because they already had finished flooring products down adjacent to the kitchen. I also had to remove the window casings in the kitchen to get my uppers to fit, window casings that already had had their final spray - finishing final spray should be after the cabinets but before the flooring. Bathrooms already had their stone tile down before my cabinets which is not normal, just a situation waiting for chipped, broken or scratched flooring products.

The young couple that bought this home, everything was about aesthetics for them and now they own an acreage, they are in over their heads considering the amount of extra work there is to maintaining an acreage but as long as their hone looks good, everything is cool. I could go on about more problems in this home but there's no point because there were so many. Point being that small companies are not necessarily good either.

[HiTempguy1]

Quality of home construction 100% comes down to oversight by a supervisor/foreman.

Trades will fuck around, fuck up and hide shit if they aren't rode. I shouldn't single out trades, thats really how the world in general works.

Gotta be inspecting the work all the time, especially prior to boarding things up so they can't be seen.

[AndyL]

When I was doing doors it was a constant clusterduck on every condo - don't give the door the room it needs, don't give us the $ so you can have a door that'll last more than 6 months without needing springs replaced...

99% of the time it was a failure before it started... And the poor techs just try to make it work.

[J-D]

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It’s as bad or worse with the all the infills, townhomes, and row condos going up through-out our city. The biggest trend I’m seeing right now is all these small builders buying up corner lots to do row style townhomes. Throwing them up as fast possible, using the cheapest materials they can find to try and maximize their return. It blows my mind how poorly they are constructed and the garbage they are using these days for finishing materials.

I had been looking at houses over the last few months, I would say half of the show homes I visited had way more obvious problems than the 20-30 year old homes I looked at. The code might be better, but except for the really expensive homes builders are using cheap materials like crazy nowadays and it really shows.