Teen dies during 'completely random' home invasion attack, police shoot intruder

[Misterman]

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Research is the gold standard. Until it challenges someone's internal belief system. Then it's a bullshit conspiracy to support a narrative.

Carry on.

Cool, just ignore the entire point so you don't have to discuss it any longer. Carry on.

[msommers]

Feel free to discuss the contrasts of responsible gun ownership vs. suicide and domestic violence rates at home. Perhaps I could learn something.

[Supa Dexta]

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so keep a baseball bat / knife / hammer / whatever that you're comfortable with to defend yourself.

You realize the vast majority of people (including most men) would have any one of those items taken from them in short order, and then most likely used against them right? Sure its better to have something than nothing, but I'd rather have something that can put holes in people from a distance.

[Buster]

does gun ownership cause bravado, or does bravado cause gun ownership?

[BavarianBeast]

Just keep a loaded glock .45 in your drywall. If you really need to use it, bust open the drywall and pop a fool.

Safe for the whole family.

[killramos]

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does gun ownership cause bravado, or does bravado cause gun ownership?

It’s like having a second cock

[Supa Dexta]

Call it what you please, but if someone comes into my home wishing to do me harm - I'd rather have a gun than my hammer, for the easy cleanup if nothing else. Hammer beatings are so messy.

[killramos]

All in Jest, I love my guns

[revelations]

For actual home invasion defense, you have you be aware:

- most perps come in pairs (unless a crackhead breaks in by themselves)
- most carry bear spray
- most are armed with tools/screwdrivers/knives (deadly weapons)
- most are looking for easy target and will flee when confronted

[Misterman]

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Feel free to discuss the contrasts of responsible gun ownership vs. suicide and domestic violence rates at home. Perhaps I could learn something.

The "research" that you were quoting, was all purely anecdotal as I mentioned. We could make the same correlative statements about anything. "Riding in a car increases your risk of being involved in a car accident by 100%!!" Quick, everybody burn your cars, they are death traps!! It is impossible to be involved in a gun accident in your home, if there are no guns in the home. This is why supporting data is important when drawing conclusions from research. You can't just say that gun ownership increases chance of suicide, without some sort of information describing how that is possible in the first place. Otherwise it is just a random correlated statistic. Do guns give people suicidal thoughts? Or are suicidal people just more likely to go out and buy a gun to take care of the job?

Canada has drastically different gun statistics than the U.S. when comparing actual homes with guns. There is a slew of factors that could be responsible. But the fact that we have way more stringent laws around storage than most States is most likely a major factor.

[msommers]

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The "research" that you were quoting, was all purely anecdotal as I mentioned.

Are you saying the Annals of Internal Medicine is not considered a legitimate research journal to you?

[max_boost]

Ya know I have always wanted to take some sort of martial art class where you utilize a weapon etc. At 5'4 and 130lbs lol who am I gonna beat up with out a gun or weapon?

Need @baygirl to confirm this spikers chasing her around in his underwear

[Gman.45]

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For actual home invasion defense, you have you be aware:

- most perps come in pairs (unless a crackhead breaks in by themselves)
- most carry bear spray
- most are armed with tools/screwdrivers/knives (deadly weapons)
- most are looking for easy target and will flee when confronted

This. I also agree that having a firearm in a home can come with increased risks, but they ALSO come with increased benefits in terms of defense, mostly due to the above quote. Odds are you're going to be outnumbered, and fighting against armed opponents, and probably in low light conditions. Oh yeah, they'll also have this little thing called the element of surprise, which gives them the initiative and is by FAR the most important feature of any armed combat.

The advantages you as a home owner will have are the ability to plan ahead, and prepare your home, your family, and yourself prior to threats attacking you in or at your home. The other major advantage is that you have the ability to legally access and use firearms inside your home, and as Revelations stated, most of the time the threats will be armed with weapons which are NOT firearms. Using the force continuum, you rarely are going to win a fight by just meeting the threat with the same level of force/weapons, you win by using violence of action and going the next step up the continuum. How often do you see LE squaring off for fist fights when some idiot puts up his dukes to them? He either gets sprayed, tased, or batoned, or seriously outnumbered. If that same idiot pulls an edged weapon, the majority of the time he gets shot if he moves to use it. This is why having improvised weapons, bats, knives, swords, etc, isn't a great option, especially if you aren't trained in fighting with them. You'll likely be going into at best a parity situation in your own home, a coin flip, and the winner gets access to your wife and children.

[civic_stylez]

As a gun owner, Ive made my decision and procedure if there should ever be an intruder in my home and I will accept the consequences should it ever happen.

My reason for my guns is for the EXACT situation in this thread. "Random shitbag enters home and kills innocent person for no reason". Theres a ton of stuff that can/will kill you out there but I just refuse to have the story at the start of this be the reason why. Not a tough guy statement by any means. Many of you have different thoughts and input on what should and shouldnt happen and that is totally fine but I will not leave the safety and potential survival of my family up to a stranger in my home.

[sexualbanana]

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Call it what you please, but if someone comes into my home wishing to do me harm - I'd rather have a gun than my hammer, for the easy cleanup if nothing else. Hammer beatings are so messy.

It all falls into how "wishing to do harm" is (or not) interpreted.

If you see an intruder in your house rummaging through your drawers, you can't pop a couple rounds in his back because you were "fearful for your life."

If you see an intruder in your house rummaging through your drawers, and they turn to confront you, then his actual threat to your well-being escalates to the point that you probably could fire a couple rounds at him and it wouldn't be an issue.

[Tik-Tok]

"I identify as a Texan, so should be legally allowed all the rights of Texans"

[Sky]

Thanks for all the great input and ideas. The intruder had a weapon but not disclosed what yet. I do agree that home invasions are most likely people jacked up on drugs, multiple intruders, have a weapon / gun and meeting that threat with blunt / edged weapons will likely not turn the odds in your favor. Canada home defense law sucks but I guess if you have a gun and are able to get it quickly unlocked, loaded and ready then that would give you the best chance of survival and protecting your family.

Then let the jury decided your fate. At least there are some cases of home owner not being guilty of killing the intruder. I think the courts would look at each case with different weight depending on if discharging a firearm was just a mother and child, family with children, single guy living alone, etc. Since I have a wife and kid, I think I would have a better chance to not get charged.

A heavy duty steel security storm door or reinforced doors anyone? But if intruder really wanted to get in to your home they would just break a window and climb in easy.

[ExtraSlow]

Holy shit you guys sound like you live in constant fear. Sounds awful.

[ercchry]

I sleep pretty easy with the 180lbs or so of dogs in my house... perps would be fucking suicidal to pick my house over a neighbour’s

Hell, I even forgot my key in my front door the other week with no issues... and I’m inner city

[Gman.45]

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Thanks for all the great input and ideas. The intruder had a weapon but not disclosed what yet. I do agree that home invasions are most likely people jacked up on drugs, multiple intruders, have a weapon / gun and meeting that threat with blunt / edged weapons will likely not turn the odds in your favor. Canada home defense law sucks but I guess if you have a gun and are able to get it quickly unlocked, loaded and ready then that would give you the best chance of survival and protecting your family.

Then let the jury decided your fate. At least there are some cases of home owner not being guilty of killing the intruder. I think the courts would look at each case with different weight depending on if discharging a firearm was just a mother and child, family with children, single guy living alone, etc. Since I have a wife and kid, I think I would have a better chance to not get charged.

A heavy duty steel security storm door or reinforced doors anyone? But if intruder really wanted to get in to your home they would just break a window and climb in easy.

I posted examples of very cheap and simple door jambs that make even average doors all but impenetrable without an explosive entry. There are TONS of products out there that make windows hard targets too. Just do a bit of research or hire a pro, it's relatively inexpensive to make your home a much harder target. As I said, firearms should be a very last resort, and although I feel defensively most are better off with them than without especially with training, you can still do much to improve you and your family's safety without them.

Holy shit you guys sound like you live in constant fear. Sounds awful.

Most people I know who have well made plans, training, and experience in dealing with threats don't spend time in constant fear, it's more of the opposite effect - in fact being at home is the one place you don't cruise around constantly evaluating everything you see, from traffic patterns, building's layouts, weak points, vulnerabilities, etc.

Martial arts like BJJ are extremely beneficial for a number of reasons, and I also agree that a good fur missile quadruped is a great idea, both as an early warning system, and as a defensive tool. My former company got into military canines after the Afghanistan contracts dried up (that and maritime security mostly aboard ships), and we got a 5 year old Belgian Malinois that was retired, and he's been great for all the above and more.