Plane Engines and the 737 MAX 8 Accidents

[JRSC00LUDE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just because they've had the training, doesn't mean they properly executed it. The captain had over 8000 hours, but this could be a case where too much experience was a bad thing. If most of his career was flying 737's, then it would be easy to forget the difference on a Max that he's only been flying a few months with, during an emergency situation.

OR the terrorists are hacking into the system and crashing planes.....

[phil98z24]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just because they've had the training, doesn't mean they properly executed it. The captain had over 8000 hours, but this could be a case where too much experience was a bad thing. If most of his career was flying 737's, then it would be easy to forget the difference on a Max that he's only been flying a few months with, during an emergency situation.

Totally agree, just throwing that in the mix to add to this already messy discussion about MCAS. That said, I do find it hard to believe that an auto trim override procedure that is fairly similar to that used to disable MCAS commands which Boeing sent out a friendly reminder about, could be forgotten or mixed up so soon after the Lion Air incident necessitating those actions taken to mitigate a repeat. I dunno, human error is the largest part of most aviation incidents but this seems out of the ordinary based on the data sets available to us unwashed masses.

[Aleks]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Since I started flying some 15 years ago, there has been a marked push in the last 5-8 years or so trending towards “operation” when it comes to flight crew training. It used to be we would learn all the systems inside and out, so that when something happened we’d be able to “think outside the box” and figure out what’s really going on. Unfortunately, due to several accidents which led to a change in the way they approach flight crew training, it’s moved now towards strictly operating procedures and checklists. For example, “if X happens, action checklist Y.”

It’s a great system because it ensures that nothing is missed, and is extremely thorough. It’s not infallible however, and proper systems knowledge is essential for when things happen that aren’t scripted or haven’t been accounted for.

I have to defend my colleagues here, if they were doing what they were trained to do, (like the crew of SwissAir 111 was) then the issue is not with them, but with the training. MCAS is a great system, IF flight crews are trained on what it does and what to do when things go pear-shaped. Perhaps Boeing thought it not important enough to include in the training syllabus? Time will tell. All to often the media etc is so quick to blame “pilot error”. Yes, human beings make mistakes, but there are checks and balances in place for those too.

How common is it for a 28 year old to have 8,000 hours, and be a captain on a 737? Must have started really young. Not asking to imply pilot error just personally curious as that seems very impressive to me to be that young with so many hours.

[benyl]

rich parents?

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How common is it for a 28 year old to have 8,000 hours, and be a captain on a 737? Must have started really young. Not asking to imply pilot error just personally curious as that seems very impressive to me to be that young with so many hours.

In Canada it would take no less than 8 years of commercial flying to get that many (Max. 1000 flight hours a year here), but that doesn't include non-commercial flight hours. I don't know Ethiopian duty hour limitations though.

Like Benyl said, rich parents, or possibly fake credentials.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Screw it. I took a gamble and bought 100 shares for 375$ yesterday. I have a sell in good through today for 390$, I saw it touched 380 once so far.

Kinda surprised, but looks like 375's the bottom. I mean unless airlines starts to cancel orders, but I don't see that happening.

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Kinda surprised, but looks like 375's the bottom. I mean unless airlines starts to cancel orders, but I don't see that happening.

I bet China starts that domino too.

[ganesh]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Kinda surprised, but looks like 375's the bottom. I mean unless airlines starts to cancel orders, but I don't see that happening.

Or a redesign is mandated.

[benyl]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or a redesign is mandated.

I would think it is more economical to call it a new model and require training than redesign. As has been said, the 737MAX is more of a cousin than a brother of the 737 (OG) and 737NG. The appeal of the MAX was that you didn't need to retrain your pilots and maintenance teams.

[Tik-Tok]

It won't be a new designation or "redesign" per se. My bet is an aural callout, and/or light that will alert the crew that MCAS is still enabled after they disconnect the autopilot manually.

Again, assuming this is the problem with the second crash. It's all just speculation at the moment.

[95EagleAWD]

Just dig into the 717 software.


STABILIZER MOTION

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Kinda surprised, but looks like 375's the bottom. I mean unless airlines starts to cancel orders, but I don't see that happening.

I was a little worried when I saw the dip to 365, but I figure either way, even if it gets worse, I'll just have to hold it longer until a resolution comes about and the price returns to pre-737 max days.

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I bet China starts that domino too.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news...ty-manufa.html

China can definitely buy more A320s from Airbus. That's almost like supporting home grown industry.

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news...ty-manufa.html

China can definitely buy more A320s from Airbus. That's almost like supporting home grown industry.

Orrr...

"So Mr.Trudeau, I see you have some a nice aircraft manufacturing plant, and want some upcoming votes in that area. Ohhhh, and about Huawei..."

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Orrr...

"So Mr.Trudeau, I see you have some a nice aircraft manufacturing plant, and want some upcoming votes in that area. Ohhhh, and about Huawei..."

Trudeau's political capital is all spent on SNC. Also Bombardier doesn't even have a horse in that race and is now Airbus's bitch anyway. The C series is already renamed to A220.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Kinda surprised, but looks like 375's the bottom. I mean unless airlines starts to cancel orders, but I don't see that happening.

I’ll buy big if I see 350, aside from that not confident enough for gains at current levels.

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Trudeau's political capital is all spent on SNC. Also Bombardier doesn't even have a horse in that race and is now Airbus's bitch anyway. The C series is already renamed to A220.

The manufacturing plant, jobs, are still in Quebec per the partnership agreement. Bombardier still owns 30%'ish.

[95EagleAWD]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The manufacturing plant, jobs, are still in Quebec per the partnership agreement. Bombardier still owns 30%'ish.

Came here to say this. They’re still built at Mirabel.

I wonder if Viking will move Q400 production. Or restart smaller Q200/300.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Grounded until May at the earliest, until a satisfactory update can be successfully tested and installed.

I imagine Boeing is working about 100X faster on the update now that everything is grounded haha.

[kenny]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Grounded until May at the earliest, until a satisfactory update can be successfully tested and installed.

I imagine Boeing is working about 100X faster on the update now that everything is grounded haha.

Yeah just read that Air Canada said their fleet will be grounded at least 3 weeks.

Also interesting numbers here:

AC: 24 planes, 75 daily flights, 9000-12000 daily passengers affected
WJ: 13 planes, 35 daily flights, 1000 daily passengers affected

Typo on passengers affected or is WJ's load factor (not sure if proper term) that low?