Plane Engines and the 737 MAX 8 Accidents

[ThePenIsMightier]

Ok seriously. Are these things STILL grounded??! What the fuck is taking so long!?

[ShermanEF9]

Software isn't written in a day. QA and bug fixes take time. Its also coming down to the FAA going "well we should probably not fuck this up" and is actually taking their time certifying it. I would expect them to be grounded until at least august.

[spikerS]

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Software isn't written in a day. QA and bug fixes take time. Its also coming down to the FAA going "well we should probably not fuck this up" and is actually taking their time certifying it. I would expect them to be grounded until at least august.

From what I am hearing, that might be overly optimistic. The earliest I am hearing is late October / early November. But I am not following this that close, my info is coming from the ether...

[Tik-Tok]

Honestly, I don't know why they aren't letting those airlines that paid for the "extra" safety feature back in the air. A AOA disagree light, and being fully aware of the MCAS is system should be enough to allow safe flights.

[01RedDX]

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[Tik-Tok]

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In the end though, it's still a dynamically unstable airframe, is it not? I know I personally don't ever want to get on a MAX because it's a fatally flawed design.

The airframe is stable enough IMO , I wouldn't have any problem flying on one with a properly trained flight crew. Especially now that every pilot on earth knows about this issue, and their first instinct will be to shut MCAS off.

[revelations]

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In the end though, it's still a dynamically unstable airframe, is it not? I know I personally don't ever want to get on a MAX because it's a fatally flawed design.

No it most certainly is not. The media as usual, does not have a clue and have successfully made the masses fear something (again). You are referring to fighter jets which are inherently unstable by design to allow them to quickly depart from typical flight into, even post-stall regimes sometimes. What the MAX had was some undesired pitchup tendencies at high power settings, at low weights. This was borne out by several crashes of the earlier Gen models (in Russia) where the pilots were not trained properly by their carriers.

ALL jets with low mounted wings will pitch up when go around power is applied, and you are in a low weight, low airspeed situation.

As a former tech for Air Canada, I would not hesitate to fly a MAX, even now with its known issues, ANYWHERE in the WESTERN world. There were some minor issues here, but the pilots and systems were FAR better able to handle it.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Ok seriously. Are these things STILL grounded??! What the fuck is taking so long!?

Just checking in a quick seven months later...
Who believes they are any closer to releasing them?

[pheoxs]

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Just checking in a quick seven months later...
Who believes they are any closer to releasing them?

Kind of funny, for being a 'this is just a problem with inexperienced pilots' that it's clearly not a easy fix

[Tik-Tok]

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Kind of funny, for being a 'this is just a problem with inexperienced pilots' that it's clearly not a easy fix

It is an easy fix (so far as aviation goes anyhow). Some software updates and a few wires will take care of the issue, however now the FAA is going through the entire aircraft design looking for any other things that Boeing might have ram rodded through.

Also, lol at anyone who thinks this is "slow". Aviation is inherently slow, otherwise there would be a lot more mechanically induced aviation disasters. There's a reason why 80% of crashes is due to pilot error and not mechanical.

[bigboom]

Has WestJet put them back in the rotation without any fan fare? Was looking at booking some tickets this morning and noticed this.

[killramos]

I think the Max 8 is the default plane for that route corporately. Maybe they haven’t kicked the can down the road that far in their long term planning.

[JustinL]

They've been on the schedule for a long time. You're right, they just update the schedule as they go dropping the Max 8. I'm not sure how the roll out is going to go when the plane is approved again. It's going to take a lot to regain the public's trust.

[ExtraSlow]

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I'm not sure how the roll out is going to go when the plane is approved again. It's going to take a lot to regain the public's trust.

I don't think so. People are whores with short memories. Offer a $50/seat discount and the planes will be full from day 1, and you can drop that discount after 6 weeks or less.

[pheoxs]

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They've been on the schedule for a long time. You're right, they just update the schedule as they go dropping the Max 8. I'm not sure how the roll out is going to go when the plane is approved again. It's going to take a lot to regain the public's trust.

Westjet CEO said it'll just be a software update so they should have their planes back up and running relatively quickly. Air Canada said Jan 8th would be the soonest if the fix comes out soon. (Date gets pushed depending on when the fix comes out obviously)

For Westjet the Max 8 is like 10% of their seats so they are in a huge pinch to get them back in the air asap

[Disoblige]

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I don't think so. People are whores with short memories. Offer a $50/seat discount and the planes will be full from day 1, and you can drop that discount after 6 weeks or less.

Yup.

I can't think of a greater optimism bias than flying in an airplane.

[ExtraSlow]

I should also clarify that I will not hesitate to fly on these plane, probably even without a discount.

[spikerS]

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I should also clarify that I will not hesitate to fly on these plane, probably even without a discount.

me either. Once this gets fixed, with all the attention this plane is getting and with how many engineers are going to be going through this with a fine tooth comb...Boeing will throw every dollar at it to appease everyone, this plane will probably be the safest plant in the skies, ever.

[revelations]

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They've been on the schedule for a long time. You're right, they just update the schedule as they go dropping the Max 8. I'm not sure how the roll out is going to go when the plane is approved again. It's going to take a lot to regain the public's trust.

Maybe in less developed countries that might be the view (lots of superstition, etc.) - but in the Western world, most people know the safest aircraft is the one that just had 2 crashes and was grounded and was gone over from rivet to rivet and line of code to line of code.

Same thing happened after the Space shuttle Challenger crash - the next flight was going to be the safest ever.

What I do see happening is another immediate, knee jerk, global grounding if another 737M piles into the ground - even for obvious pilot error reasons in a second or 3rd world country.

The ship is flying with a big target on its back.

[Xtrema]

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In the end though, it's still a dynamically unstable airframe, is it not? I know I personally don't ever want to get on a MAX because it's a fatally flawed design.

I think of it as everyone are rolling their SUVs so everybody get ESCs standard.

So Boeing's mistake is make the ESC optional and then didn't tell pilots about it.