Get your popcorn out, the Mueller Report just dropped.

[killramos]

Imagine all the good in the world that could be done with all this wasted energy if people just dropped this Trump witch hunt.

If he’s so terrible just let him crash and burn, this continued obsessive targeting and defiance is what is going to get him elected again.

[rage2]

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If he’s so terrible just let him crash and burn, this continued obsessive targeting and defiance is what is going to get him elected again.

Maybe that's the strategy, and that all this obsessive targeting and defiance are actually Russian bots.

[msommers]

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Imagine all the good in the world that could be done with all this wasted energy if people just dropped this Trump witch hunt.

If he’s so terrible just let him crash and burn, this continued obsessive targeting and defiance is what is going to get him elected again.

LOL Because Trump is the living version of Fat Tony

[tonytiger55]

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no, that was concluded in the original release to the DoJ and i don't think anyone was expecting that to change today with the public release.

it's the obstruction of justice that is of interest now, especially with all of the claims of "no collusion, no obstruction" by the Admin.

Thats what im trying to understand. The original question was there collusion. Im getting that the answer is no.

Obstruction of justice is another issue.

[HiTempguy1]

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LOL Because Trump is the living version of Fat Tony
]

Do you honestly, actually believe this?

So Trump is... Smart? I mean, I personally don't believe he is an idiot, but he also isn't any genius, he could have pulled off so much more and gotten so much of his agenda accomplished if he was.

So which is it? Bumbling moron who can't help himself or genius mastermind which colluded with the Russians to steal the election and systematically destroy democracy?

He can't be both because its simply not possible.

[sabad66]

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Thats what im trying to understand. The original question was there collusion. Im getting that the answer is no.

Obstruction of justice is another issue.

you're right that they are two separate issues, although they are related and the Special Counsel report investigated both. Even in Barr's original summary he made it clear both issues were investigated by Mueller:

The report explains that the Special Counsel and his staff thoroughly investigated allegations that members of the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump, and others associated with it, conspired with the Russian government in its efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, or sought to obstruct the related federal investigations.

Mueller determined that collusion did not happen, but did not say yes or no about obstruction, leaving it up to more appropriate channels (DoJ or Congress) to prosecute based on the findings in the report.

The DoJ obviously will not prosecute the Obstruction (although i found it interesting that Barr said him and his deputy disagreed on that), and Congress won't impeach and remove so really it's a dead end either way in my opinion.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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If you read the report there's actually a few interesting references that sort of say that impeaching a sitting president is quite hard but that these facts are being laid out to potentially have charges laid once he leaves office. Though I still doubt anything will come of it, politics nowadays have shown that people can get away with so much corruption and it get swept under the rug. The interesting thing with that is it means Trumps life might depend on the 2020 election because if he loses it, he could be charged with a lot, whereas if he wins it, all of this will fall outside the statue of limitations and he'd get away with it all.

Best case is 2020 and people vote this fool out once and for all and the next 20 years are spent dealing with his mess

I haven't had time yet to read the report or look at the summaries that no doubt most news outlets are compiling. Should be a good week for my legal podcasts too, where unbiased lawyers far more knowledgeable on the matter than anyone here can shed some light.

The DOJ has a 'policy' that you can't indict a sitting president. That issue is also why Mueller passed the obstruction decision onto Trump's AG, and the reason Trump brought Barr out of retirement.

Anyways I stand by my original prediction that nothing will happen, but he loses in 2020. He doesn't really do anything anyway haha (60% of his time is personal time). There are way worse people than Trump with arguably even more power (like McConnell) and that wouldn't change if Trump was gone. He will then have the state charges to deal with which are all way worse than the narrow Mueller probe, which so far hasn't revealed anything unexpected either way. Kushner, Ivanka, and Don Jr. probably have more to worry about than Trump in the short term.

I also think a lot of people don't realize that none of this is specifically anti-Trump or partisan - it's literally about taking out the trash, and the reaction would be the same if it was an equally corrupt Democrat sitting in office. I certainly hope an equally serious probe would be launched regardless of who was president under similar circumstances. There is a difference between getting to the truth (which is especially important given that it's the president), and disliking someone due to their political association. A democrat was recently indicted in fact (Greg Craig), and 'good riddance' is the general sentiment based on what I've read. On a personal level I couldn't care less what party the president belongs too or what the president does, I just find the absolute circus that is American politics far more interesting than Canadian politics.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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Thats what im trying to understand. The original question was there collusion. Im getting that the answer is no.

Obstruction of justice is another issue.

Pretty much, yeah. The "Collusion" narrative is dead - Mueller has essentially cleared Trump on that front - some questionable meetings happened but no collusion or coordination was found. The only thing left in the cards for the Democrats is the obstruction issue, and Mueller didn't really make a call either way - his conclusion on that front amounted to "there's a lot of smoke, but a lot of smoke doesn't let me indict a sitting President" and he kicked it back to Congress to deal with.

[msommers]

Yes, seems to be a lot of witnesses saying "I don't recall."

And the infamous "fully exonerated" shtick:

...if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

[04Terminator]

No doubt Trump is a crook. But Mueller obliterated the russiagate collusion conspiracy theory.


https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/...iterated-them/

[A790]

Well, he's a crook but not a Russian one... so that's nice.

[Kobe]

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I haven't had time yet to read the report or look at the summaries that no doubt most news outlets are compiling. Should be a good week for my legal podcasts too, where unbiased lawyers far more knowledgeable on the matter than anyone here can shed some light.

Please link me to non-biased podcasts I want to listen to them.



Democrats or Republicans the fact Russia was able to do this is extremely fucked up.


What I feel happens before 2020 elections

China owns 1.18 Trillion of US Debt 10Y Treasury Bonds they own - They make US pay right before the elections causing a nice big flash crash on the markets - The Dollar falls and a recession happens. Tax increases and people can't pay their debts..

Why? Well Trump told Europe to fuck off (Basically) with their free-trade agreement (That was in progress) and now China and Europe are discussing a deal, they strike a deal and both tell the US to fuck themselves.

Canada already has a free trade deal with Europe as well btw

But I do want to listen to unbiased opinions.

Factcheck:

China and 1.18Trillion, even though I've read from other sources its 1.23 Trillion now..


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...ebt-2018-08-21


https://www.investopedia.com/article...sury-bonds.asp

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The DOJ has a 'policy' that you can't indict a sitting president. That issue is also why Mueller passed the obstruction decision onto Trump's AG, and the reason Trump brought Barr out of retirement.

This as well Mueller can't do anything except research, his not allowed to impeach Trump.

Also Barr was nominated by Trump to be the attorney General on December 7th, 2018 and I'm assuming he knew at the time Barr would be on his side whatever happens. Let's be real here if someone thinks that Trump picked an unbiased AG... Yah....

[rage2]

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Democrats or Republicans the fact Russia was able to do this is extremely fucked up.

Not really. People are on social media. People are stupid. Not hard for groups who have the internet to meddle.

What the US has historically done to other countries pre internet is more impressive.

[01RedDX]

.

[04Terminator]

Just heard the US Justice department is preparing to go after the architects of the whole Trump Russia conspiracy theory. The thing that started this 3 year witch hunt.

Can you imagine if they find Clinton was behind it?

[Tik-Tok]

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Just heard the US Justice department is preparing to go after the architects of the whole Trump Russia conspiracy theory. The thing that started this 3 year witch hunt.

Can you imagine if they find Clinton was behind it?

I'm sure Russia would have released her emails already if that was the case. Unless they're waiting for 2020, lol.

[Kobe]

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Not really. People are on social media. People are stupid. Not hard for groups who have the internet to meddle.

What the US has historically done to other countries pre internet is more impressive.

Ya i remember a post on reddit they got some fake news on the front page of reddit for $200 and just having bots upvote things, I wonder if those are somehow related, I'm wondering when that happened now.

I don't think its exactly "impressive" what Russia did and TBH i don't find it extremely surprising, I think i'm more impressed with the work of the FBI and its kind of scary how everything you do online is out there, you can't exactly "hide" Tor and VPN seems it will be used by politicians much more now for information.

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Just heard the US Justice department is preparing to go after the architects of the whole Trump Russia conspiracy theory. The thing that started this 3 year witch hunt.

Can you imagine if they find Clinton was behind it?

Can they really do much to the architects if they are in Russia? I'd assume Putin prob knew about this.


I do like reading CNN and FOX and making my own assumptions

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ims-total-bull

So trump now told Fox that that McGahn resigned and it's bullshit that he never asked him to fire Mueller? I do find Trumps side of this Bullshit as we have found out the reasons given about James Commey being fired "fake news" from Sarah Saunders.

I also think that the white house press security being busted is pretty big news, and next time democrats don't believe something they are going to call her out just like Republicans were saying you can't believe anything Cohen says since he was caught lying before to congress.


I can't wait to watch the movie on this... It seems like house of cards In real life... Hahahah

[Gman.45]

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That's kinda the point, the US has never been able to meddle in other regimes without huge military expenditures and mass casualties.

Meanwhile, Russia was able to weaponize an American social network to sow conflict and division and elected their preferred candidate with minimal effort.

A culmination of decades of psy-ops and ideological subversion paid off huge for Russia and caught the US with their pants down. That's very impressive IMO.

If you've never seen this, it's very fascinating, basically this KGB defector was warning America about this many years ago:

Sometimes yes, but not always, in fact not in the majority of cases.


You could ask the former governments of Egypt and Libya about this, if they still existed. There are entire divisions in the various American intel agencies which are tasked with doing nothing but meddling in other nations affairs. Yes, the US used brute force to have regime change in Iraq, but the whole "Arab Spring" revolts which resulted in regime change in Egypt and Libya were instigated by US Intel agency operations right from the start. Didn't work out so well in Syria though...

If you think the Russians have a capability that American Intel services lack or have failed to demonstrate, you're incorrect.

I would argue that the only thing the Russians did that had any effect on the 2016 election was the hacking of the DNC/Clinton/Podesta emails, and that's a big IF they were even behind that.

[Gman.45]

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Not really. People are on social media. People are stupid. Not hard for groups who have the internet to meddle.

What the US has historically done to other countries pre internet is more impressive.

Agreed - and further to my previous post, the US tried again recently to "meddle" in Turkey, and US agencies used social media in a similar way that the Russians tried in the USA, in order to topple the government there. The attempt failed, as Erdogan flipped it right back at the CIA/etc by using social media himself, and calling on "his people" to rise up against the military which was trying for a coup. The Russians have always been very effective when it comes to using intelligence agencies vs foreign powers, but they are far from the only ones with this capability.

[04Terminator]

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That's kinda the point, the US has never been able to meddle in other regimes without huge military expenditures and mass casualties.

Meanwhile, Russia was able to weaponize an American social network to sow conflict and division and elected their preferred candidate with minimal effort.

A culmination of decades of psy-ops and ideological subversion paid off huge for Russia and caught the US with their pants down. That's very impressive IMO.

If you've never seen this, it's very fascinating, basically this KGB defector was warning America about this many years ago:

The whole Russia narrative is a joke. Those communists are 50 years behind America's covert abilities to control people and nations. If Russia did anything here, the US knew about it and rightly concluded it was inconsequential though useful as a tool to amp up "America, Fuck Yeah!" patriotism.

This whole russiagate conspiracy had an American agenda.