CPS - new SWAT vehicle

[killramos]

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@Gman.45 I don't know your specific job but given your knowledge on this and related topics...your job sounds badass.

This. GMan’s stories are always epic.

[themack89]

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Fair point, I hate the idea of ANY $ going to Quebec, but the problem is there isn't anyone in Calgary that builds these things to that sort of spec (I think, there wasn't while I was there). A guy who used an office in our old training building in Calgary with the first PMC I worked for, was the 2nd largest seller of armor material for both body and vehicle systems in the world back in the 2000s, but I don't think any companies during that time or now build large armored vehicles in Calgary or AB. I'd rather CPS bought it from a Canadian company - even Quebec, blah - than a US one, just for logistics reasons as I already mentioned.

Acknowledged. It is an unfortunate reality that when you are buying something relatively niche, then you just have to be a price taker.

On a side note... PMC = Prime Military Contractor?

[Gman.45]

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Fair point, lots of high caliber rifles out there.

Hard to tell from a picture but it doesn’t really look like that ARV has much ability to “fight” from inside it either though?

It’s also my understanding that many US police forces with MRAP’s by and large aren’t buying them, but are receiving them handed down (ie free) from armed forces surplus with much smaller costs to retrofit for policing use. Obviously that’s a country with a very different military scope and procurement system than we do but I wonder if something like that would have been feasible? https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/m...efense-9357062

The military class MRAPs like the one Miami is using are all over $1mil CAD, at least. A lot of departments got them from the military in the USA for free when they decommissioned them for whatever reason, the end of US participation in Iraq in a large scale left a lot of MRAPs left over. Remember that 747 that crashed right after takeoff? It was a load of several MRAPs on that plane, and one broke loose and crashed through a bulkhead wrecking that plane's hydraulic controls. They were flying those out back to the USA every day back then, and a ton of departments had them donated to them by the DOD in the US. Buying one outright is probably 2 or 3x what the Quebec built vehicle cost. I don't think a Canadian department could get a "donated" US MRAP due to the ITAR treaty, as CPS is a civilian agency and not a military one, along with a lot of other legal/import/etc rules and reasons which I'm not familiar with. The Canadian army used the RG31 (IIRC) and the Textron AFV, but neither of those is optimal for civilian LE use, nor is the Canadian army donating stuff like this to LE agencies. But you're correct, it would be nice if LE agencies here could get free hand me downs from the military (both US and Canadian), but it isn't likely to happen. I'm sure CPS would like to take that $500k and put it elsewhere in their budget too, but I doubt it was possible (again a CPS member would be able to comment better on this).

Look at the new CPS ARV - notice the turret on the roof? That's what I'm talking about, this gives a TAC unit officer the ability to properly engage threats while still being inside a very protected environment. Again, this is something you can't really do with a civilian uparmored vehicle. Plus the extra armor protection of the entire vehicle, the rest of the space inside it, etc.

YT video shows some interior pics - even the firing ports in the doors are in places which make it far easier to get into a proper shooting position to engage any threats, which you couldn't do in a civilian sized vehicle. Plus the turret, although I'm not 100% certain it has firing ports, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't. Otherwise it's sort of useless for anything other than observation, and this truck has high speed whizzy electronic surveillance systems by the look of it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM4Q5Zt7NS4

[nzwasp]

Speaking of the old one it’s being used right now in the SE unsure what’s going on.

Actually didn’t notice this but swat are standing in this 2nd pic with their guns out outside this house in Ogden

[killramos]

Too lazy to quote but that’s a good video!

My question is also whether or not the vehicle has the capability to fire from it. The picture doesn’t make it look like it has that capability. Even in the turret. Looks pretty sealed up. Which as you said is fine for observation I guess but not sure this really has substantial “assault” capability?

[Gman.45]

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Too lazy to quote but that’s a good video!

My question is also whether or not the vehicle has the capability to fire from it. The picture doesn’t make it look like it has that capability. Even in the turret. Looks pretty sealed up. Which as you said is fine for observation I guess but not sure this really has substantial “assault” capability?

You can see in the rear doors the handle/mechanism you use to open up the firing ports in the rear door. The side of the vehicle has the same ports, making taking a kneeling firing position possible from their height (this is just an estimation without having been inside of it). I know I'm repeating myself, but this is something you can't do as well in a normal vehicle, and is critical for fighting with a rifle from an armored vehicle optimally. So far as the turret, again, we can't see the entire thing, it could have a firing gap built into it, or a moveable panel like the doors. At the start of the YT video, If you look closely at the very front 12 oclock position of the turret, there is what looks like a closed firing port right in the center panel between the two front windows.

There are tons of other capabilities this truck has which a SME or CPS/TAC guy could explain as well, but in terms of having to deal with threats using lethal force, this truck is far superior to civvy type vehicles IMO based on this one factor I've been blabbing about alone.

NZWasp - they probably just park in the SE so they're nearby when something goes down, ha ha.

[e31]

Its all due the rat<snake<mongoose scenario. CPS had to upgrade because some hoodlums bought some US army surplus from Ironplanet.

As was said earlier, I'd like to see the utilization reports if that thing is being used 500 timer per year. I saw it parked infront of a Safeway in the NE while the officer was picking up some Eggos. I guess that may qualify as "community outreach"

[HiTempguy1]

The police are not required to protect/save us. I'd like to think for $500k, in the off chance that they manage to get somewhere I was in danger at in sufficient time before someone made me dead, that they had the tools that made them feel comfortable to risk their lives to do so even when they aren't required to.

This doesn't strike me as a silly purchase. What I would LIKE to know is how often it can be shown that this vehicle either reduces officer injuries, or is key in saving someone's life.

Has a SWAT vehicle really ever made THE difference in saving a hostage? Or really made the officers THAT much safer, especially knowing that they are not obligated to risk their lives for mine?

[nzwasp]

The standoff moved inside the house now.

Probably 10 swat officers and a dog inside.

The cops are saying something like:

Resident of this house please come to the door or phone 911 if you are experiencing a medical emergency and follow the directions of the police in your house.

[Gman.45]

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The police are not required to protect/save us. I'd like to think for $500k, in the off chance that they manage to get somewhere I was in danger at in sufficient time before someone made me dead, that they had the tools that made them feel comfortable to risk their lives to do so even when they aren't required to.

This doesn't strike me as a silly purchase. What I would LIKE to know is how often it can be shown that this vehicle either reduces officer injuries, or is key in saving someone's life.

Has a SWAT vehicle really ever made THE difference in saving a hostage? Or really made the officers THAT much safer, especially knowing that they are not obligated to risk their lives for mine?

Fair question as well regarding the past vehicles use, however IMO it's not about what the past vehicle has done operationally, and more about growing threats and behaviors, and the unpredictable nature of those threats, that makes purchasing a more capable/new vehicle warranted. If you watch the YT video the inspector does a pretty good job explaining this.

So far as LE/CPS risking their life for yours, I realize that they don't take an oath to trade their life for yours like the Secret Service PSD details and such, but I think every LE officer in Canada I've known has demonstrably shown that they are willing to lay their life on the line for their fellow officers and every member of the public out there. IMO it's not a question of that so much, as it's a question of capability vis a vis the ARV. Armor or not, LE have and will put themselves at risk to protect the public, but in a case where say Capt Nutjub decides to start spraying down his neighborhood with a mag fed semi auto rifle, having a vehicle like the ARV can end this sort of thing far more quickly, as it allows the officers to punch in far closer, right up to the threat in fact if necessary, and give the officers a clearer picture of what's happening, and an easier shot to smoke check the threat if that's necessary. Time-Distance-Cover, is the circular equation that rules all gunfights and armed conflict with firearms, and the ARV gives CPS officers a positive increase in all 3. Less time, closer distance, better cover.

[msommers]

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...the ARV gives CPS officers a positive increase in all 3. Less time, close distance, better cover.

Nuff said. Dollars well spent.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Calgary doesn't have anything called a SWAT team FYI, lots of people seem to be referencing that but it's more of a USA thing. Calgary has the Tactical Unit (TAC) and the RCMP has the Emergency Response Team (ERT).

[Shlade]

The amount of people who have no idea what happens beyond the safe walls of their homes/every day lives is always hilarious.

If people knew half the shit Police were responding to, they'd never leave their house.

[Maxt]

I don't mind them having one, I can totally understand its role, but I just wonder how they wore out what looks like a military grade vehicle on paved roads in 12 years?
500 callouts at give them 50 km round trip and give them an additional 20k for screwing around with it, so what did it have 45,000 kms? And my current loaded down work truck is about to roll 500k.
If its got a ford 6.0 or 6.4 in it, then it makes sense...

[spikerS]

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I don't mind them having one, I can totally understand its role, but I just wonder how they wore out what looks like a military grade vehicle on paved roads in 12 years?
500 callouts at give them 50 km round trip and give them an additional 20k for screwing around with it, so what did it have 45,000 kms? And my current loaded down work truck is about to roll 500k.
If its got a ford 6.0 or 6.4 in it, then it makes sense...

replacement parts for it are no longer available, and the parts that are out there are going up in price as they become used. Remember a lot of this stuff on these are not off the shelf Ford parts...

At least this is what I heard in one of the interviews.

[RT16V]

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The amount of people who have no idea what happens beyond the safe walls of their homes/every day lives is always hilarious.

If people knew half the shit Police were responding to, they'd never leave their house.

This.

All the bad shit that happens doesn’t make the news. Saw that beast in our neighborhood a couple weeks back and a whole couple of streets were roped off for a day.....

[Maxt]

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replacement parts for it are no longer available, and the parts that are out there are going up in price as they become used. Remember a lot of this stuff on these are not off the shelf Ford parts...

At least this is what I heard in one of the interviews.

Yeah I think that was a bit of spin added to justify a new one, ISIS took territory cobbling together almost 30 year old humvees with no support, and the city can't fix a 12 year old truck.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I friend of mine is on the TAC team and I went to his bachelor party, to which a bunch of his coworkers were also invited. That was, by far, the least fun I have ever had playing paintball

But yeah I have friends in CPS, RCMP, ERT, and TAC - I get lots of stories and I would agree that people have no idea what they deal with. Also if your life was on the line, you'd want to be rolling into a sketchy situation with armor as well.

[CMW403]

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Its all due the rat<snake<mongoose scenario. CPS had to upgrade because some hoodlums bought some US army surplus from Ironplanet.

As was said earlier, I'd like to see the utilization reports if that thing is being used 500 timer per year. I saw it parked infront of a Safeway in the NE while the officer was picking up some Eggos. I guess that may qualify as "community outreach"

Source?

[revelations]

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The amount of people who have no idea what happens beyond the safe walls of their homes/every day lives is always hilarious.

If people knew half the shit Police were responding to, they'd never leave their house.

Back when scanners were open, I used to listen in to the calls on the West Coast (Nanaimo).

It was depressingly stupid and petulant most of the time. So and so arguing and fighting (again), passed out drunks and crackheads.