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Thread: 2019 Canadian Federal Election thread - polls and discussion.

  1. #1041
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    I am super disappointed by the results, and it is on full display as to why the system is broken, but I do love where I live and am not one of the "I am moving" crowd. I must admit though I do understand the possible need to contemplate separating. If we never do anything to truly advocate for our interests we will never have any voice in government. The fact of the matter is it worked for Quebec. We need to take a page from their book and actually make them realize we mean business, otherwise they have zero reason to try and accommodate our needs. Why would they bother when they know that they only need to pander to those who surround the St-Lawrence seaway to have unfettered control of the entire country.

    Time for a meaningful change, but how to do it properly and justly is a genuine challenge. I really hope we can find a way through this without ripping apart our country, but if it comes to that to be treated fairly I would count myself in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Ahahahahahaha your posts are all I wanted to read and more.

    The rest of us will set the course straight at the next election. Maybe the conservatives will have someone who can capture Canadian's interest.

    I voted CON, by the way. I'm just not turning into a drama queen over it. You fucking people are hilarious. Move. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    Definitely curious how many of those 'IM MOVING' people are still here next year. Hint: All of them.

    I do think a lot of the conservative problems (Aside from Sheer being a dolt) stem from Kenney and Ford. Both aren't well liked figures outside the far right and I think scared a lot of people in the center away from flipping to the conservatives. The fact that they basically had to put a muzzle on Ford for the election campaign is pretty telling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo View Post
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    Half my Facebook are “leavers” today and I bet less than three of them actually leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by JRSC00LUDE View Post
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    This.

    Just like the US after Trump, no one is moving. Our system of Government is flawed and broken, worry about using the voting majority to fix THAT instead of trying to leave. It would take an incredibly strong leader in an incredibly unified party to bring this Country back together, and that person doesn't exist in any current party leadership role. Nor will our system allow it to happen. And there's not a politician in the entire establishment now who would change it, Confederation is working just as intended but Canada is broken as a result.
    1. I would be less concerned about whether your neighbor or FB friends leave or not, and look at what actually can and does leave: capital. The reason your friends don't leave is because they don't know how, it's hard and people will often take shitty over difficult, and they are scared. Fine. But capital is more important than your friend, and it can easily leave.

    2. The people who CAN leave and probably will leave are the people you absolutely don't want to leave. Ultimately your FB friend or whoever wouldn't be a loss to Canada one way or the other. But the economy is driven not by your cat posting 'gram friend. It's driven by a relatively thin layer of smart risk-takers with capital, management understanding, and a most importantly a good understanding of how to combine capital with labour to create wealth. You lose THOSE people, and your middle class suffers. And those people have the ability to pull the plug much more easily than your "saying will leave but won't leave" set.

    The destruction created by a political and economic environment like Canada's is more insidious than it is social media friendly.

    Incidentally, lower/middle class Americans get this concept, even if they don't know they get this concept. In the US, someone with wealth creates an aspiration. In Canada, someone with wealth creates envy. And that mentality is why Canada will always be a great place for average people to continue to be average - but it will never be a place where cool shit happens. I laugh at a bunch of Canadians sitting around talking about "diversifying" and becoming an "innovation and high tech centre for green tech and blah blah blah". It's funny because Canadians aren't constructed as a people and as a country to reward that type of behaviour. If we did, Canada wouldn't look like the joke it currently is. We're beer league hockey players that have no concept of how talented and hard working actual pros are.

  3. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Ahahahahahaha your posts are all I wanted to read and more.

    The rest of us will set the course straight at the next election. Maybe the conservatives will have someone who can capture Canadian's interest.

    I voted CON, by the way. I'm just not turning into a drama queen over it. You fucking people are hilarious. Move. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
    Couldn’t have said it any better myself. The sun came up today and life is still going on despite all those saying otherwise. It’s a minority government, it’ll fall in two years, and even if it doesn’t, BFD. Everything will be ok. Maybe not great, but it’ll be fine.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Any writings in this forum are my personal view and all opinions expressed should be taken as such; there is no implied or direct opinion representative of anything but my own thoughts on various subjects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    1. I would be less concerned about whether your neighbor or FB friends leave or not, and look at what actually can and does leave: capital. The reason your friends don't leave is because they don't know how, it's hard and people will often take shitty over difficult, and they are scared. Fine. But capital is more important than your friend, and it can easily leave.

    2. The people who CAN leave and probably will leave are the people you absolutely don't want to leave. Ultimately your FB friend or whoever wouldn't be a loss to Canada one way or the other. But the economy is driven not by your cat posting 'gram friend. It's driven by a relatively thin layer of smart risk-takers with capital, management understanding, and a most importantly a good understanding of how to combine capital with labour to create wealth. You lose THOSE people, and your middle class suffers. And those people have the ability to pull the plug much more easily than your "saying will leave but won't leave" set.

    The destruction created by a political and economic environment like Canada's is more insidious than it is social media friendly.

    Incidentally, lower/middle class Americans get this concept, even if they don't know they get this concept. In the US, someone with wealth creates an aspiration. In Canada, someone with wealth creates envy. And that mentality is why Canada will always be a great place for average people to continue to be average - but it will never be a place where cool shit happens. I laugh at a bunch of Canadians sitting around talking about "diversifying" and becoming an "innovation and high tech centre for green tech and blah blah blah". It's funny because Canadians aren't constructed as a people and as a country to reward that type of behaviour. If we did, Canada wouldn't look like the joke it currently is. We're beer league hockey players that have no concept of how talented and hard working actual pros are.
    The talk of separatism scares off capital though. Look at the UK. How much of their financial industry fled as Brexit ramped up. They lose real jobs, they lost real headquarters and even if they go back and stay with the EU those jobs aren't coming back.

    If Wexit gains traction it'll hinder capital spending because companies won't start any new projects until they see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kertejud2 View Post
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    Why would there be a confidence vote on TMX? That would require the Liberals to vote one way and the CPC, NDP and Bloc voting the other. What reality does that scenario happen? Either the Libs vote to kill it and the Bloc and NDP agree (so confidence maintained) or the Libs vote to push through and the CPC agrees.
    The TMX is unlikely to be subject to any votes in itself but the path forward for the pipeline is certainly going to be dragged into the negotiation of other legislation which could trigger a vote of non-confidence (budget / loss of supply being the main ones).

    I would think that the Liberals walking away from a project they've already spent probably $5+ billion on would be political suicide, but given how many idiots there are in Onterrible and Quebec, who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidI View Post
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    The TMX is unlikely to be subject to any votes in itself but the path forward for the pipeline is certainly going to be dragged into the negotiation of other legislation which could trigger a vote of non-confidence (budget / loss of supply being the main ones).

    I would think that the Liberals walking away from a project they've already spent probably $5+ billion on would be political suicide, but given how many idiots there are in Onterrible and Quebec, who knows.
    I'm still willing to take bets on the TMX getting cancelled by Trudeau in 2020. I'm betting it will. You'd win if it doesn't, or if he formally cancels it in ANY OTHER calendar year. C'mon . . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    The talk of separatism scares off capital though. Look at the UK. How much of their financial industry fled as Brexit ramped up. They lose real jobs, they lost real headquarters and even if they go back and stay with the EU those jobs aren't coming back.

    If Wexit gains traction it'll hinder capital spending because companies won't start any new projects until they see what happens.
    Or just look at Quebec. Loads of capital flight to Toronto during ‘95 (though this was exacerbated by language laws).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    I'm still willing to take bets on the TMX getting cancelled by Trudeau in 2020. I'm betting it will. You'd win if it doesn't, or if he formally cancels it in ANY OTHER calendar year. C'mon . . . .
    I'll take that bet. A case of decent beer (i.e. not budlight).

    End of 2020 its still either being built or still tied up in courts but not cancelled yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    I'm still willing to take bets on the TMX getting cancelled by Trudeau in 2020. I'm betting it will. You'd win if it doesn't, or if he formally cancels it in ANY OTHER calendar year. C'mon . . . .
    i'd take this bet. loser buys a 12 pack of beer of the winner's favorite brand?

  10. #1050
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    It's absolutely worth looking at other sovereignty/separation/de-centralization situations to see what can be learned. But it's just as important to understand that each situation is unique. Ultimately any such change has to have a goal in mind. Quebec's goal was not an economic one, and Quebec attitudes are not generally conducive to seeing inflows of capital.

    Alberta, on the other hand, has the goal (perhaps the primary goal) making the jurisdiction more friendly to investment. The RoC is a barrier to that investment at the moment, and the entire point of being anti-Confederation is to remove that barrier.

    If Alberta/Sask can accomplish that goal, you would see an unprecedented inflow of capital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    I'll take that bet. A case of decent beer (i.e. not budlight).

    End of 2020 its still either being built or still tied up in courts but not cancelled yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    i'd take this bet. loser buys a 12 pack of beer of the winner's favorite brand?
    You guys meet me in the betting thread, I'll @ you.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  12. #1052
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    The only thing that will hold them up on TMX is court challenges cause they won't put any effort into them. They want that thing approved and built as soon as possible, so it can be forgotten about before the next election.

    If for some reason it became a confidence issue in the House then the conservatives will prop them up, they really have no choice. Also, no one is going to defeat them based on that, no matter how "progressive" they are because none of them have the money to do another election for at least 18 months, probably longer for the more progressive parties.

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    Well, Im sure Kenney is pleased now that his reelection chances greatly went up - his boogeyman is in power somehow in Ottawa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagare View Post
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    The only thing that will hold them up on TMX is court challenges cause they won't put any effort into them. They want that thing approved and built as soon as possible, so it can be forgotten about before the next election.

    If for some reason it became a confidence issue in the House then the conservatives will prop them up, they really have no choice. Also, no one is going to defeat them based on that, no matter how "progressive" they are because none of them have the money to do another election for at least 18 months, probably longer for the more progressive parties.
    I wonder if the Liberals would be okay with an election relatively soon - the NDP coffers are empty. I presume the Green coffers are also empty. Not sure how the Bloc would do in another election.

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    I wonder how leadership review will go here.

    Honestly the only leader who really won was Blanchet. All three of the other parties should really be having leadership reviews.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  17. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
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    Well, Im sure Kenney is pleased now that his reelection chances greatly went up - his boogeyman is in power somehow in Ottawa.
    If Kenney doesn't move talk into action in this environment, then I think he is in a tenuous position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagare View Post
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    The only thing that will hold them up on TMX is court challenges cause they won't put any effort into them. They want that thing approved and built as soon as possible, so it can be forgotten about before the next election.

    If for some reason it became a confidence issue in the House then the conservatives will prop them up, they really have no choice. Also, no one is going to defeat them based on that, no matter how "progressive" they are because none of them have the money to do another election for at least 18 months, probably longer for the more progressive parties.
    I see it coming down to the budget. If the NDP/Greens/Bloc stick to their anti-pipeline rhetoric and tie it into their support of the budget then the Conservatives will have to support what will certainly be a spendthrift budget in order to push through the pipeline. It's going to be an interesting year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
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    It pretty much comes down to the GTA in many respects.

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    LOL the SNC stock is telling.... Name:  Capture.PNG
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