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Thread: Distracted driving ticket court case - did i win or lose?

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    Default Distracted driving ticket court case - did i win or lose?

    I figured people would enjoy this but its a long one.... I got pulled over in a small town by the RCMP for distracted driving. I didn't say a word during the stop. During the stop i had my dash cams rolling the entire time. During the stop the officer claimed i made the turn at the intersection without any hands while holding my phone and that i should be thankful i didn't get a dangerous driving ticket as it would have been double the cost of a distracted driving ticket($287). I plead not guilty, requested disclosure and requested a trial where i could play the dash cam if needed.

    Fast forward 6 months i get to appear in court. I'm as prepared as I can be with all sorts of dash cam videos and photos. Sitting in the court room was nerve wracking. The prosecutor is mad. Hes on a major power trip. He is telling anyone who decides to go to trial on this day that they risk having their fines tripled. He tells everyone that they dont want to go to trial and lose as the fines get crazier and people typically leave more upset. He keeps telling people if they waste the courts time with a BS excuse that he will make an example of them. He makes it clear that the first one to trial during the day will get it the worst. As the morning progresses through all the first appearances he keeps reminding people. Slowly those there for trial start dropping like flies.

    An hour and half later we went from 100 people in the court room to 8. During a recess i chat up a guy who decides hes not going to risk having his fine tripled that he's changing his plea. I say i'm contemplating the same thing just to avoid this crazy tyrant. Why risk a quick trial if it means my fine goes up to $1000. I mention my dash cam videos and that i have a legitimate defense that i wasn't using my phone as the rcmp claimed in my disclosure. He encouraged me to fight as i had video evidence of things. Only issue was it only showed outside my vehicle not inside.

    Trial comes. The first rcmp guy takes the stand. He starts talking about the traffic stop with details that didn't happen. He is remembering things that happened that never did. He is so far off on what actually happened that i'm shocked. When i get to question the officer i confirm that his recollection is 100% correct. I confirm every one of his details one more time that happened. I confirm that in no way shape or form is he remembering things incorrectly. Next the second RCMP officer takes the stand. He too is remembering things wrong. He's making stuff up on the fly. Its beyond ridiculous at this point.... at this point i tried to offer the officer multiple ways out of his lies. At the end i gave up and thanked him for having such a vivid memory and recollection of the events as his testimony is very important.

    Then it was my turn to take the stand. At this point i asked to play my dash cam video as it would show the RCMP officers lied about everything on the stand. The prosecutor went ballistic. I got accused of creating a fake video. I got accused of not informing the court i had a dash cam. I was then told the court didn't have the equipment needed to play the video. Shit got really weird for 20 minutes as i argued with the prosecutor and the judge. I explained i requested the court room be able to play a dash cam video in case i needed to submit some evidence. I requested this with the prosecutors when i booked the trial so they were aware this may happen. I then said i brought my own equipment in to play the videos in case the court was not prepared for this request, which they weren't. The judge took a 20 min recess as the prosecutor tried hooking up the equipment that was there.

    During this mini recess i told the prosecutor he should withdraw the charges as his officers lied and the video will show this. He continued to yell at me and tell me i shouldn't be talking to him. I was trying to inform him that once the video is played it is evidence of the lies the rcmp officers told. Well he didn't listen. Court was brought back into session. I took the stand and i played the video. As it turns out dash cam videos are really good at catching lies that the RCMP or police say during the trial. The entire testimony of the RCMP officers were shown to be a lie. I took the stand and explained i cant drive a 1 ton truck with no hands, nor can i do so and make a fast turn at an intersection as they claimed and that its impossible to use my knees to drive a truck as this was also proposed by one of the officers. I walked the prosecutor and judge through the dash cam videos and pointed out every single lie shared on the stand.

    After i was done sharing the prosecutor grilled into me. Accused me of many things. At one point he wanted to bring the court house out to my truck in the parking lot to make sure there wasn't a dash cam facing inwards into my vehicle. It got pretty heated and i expressed my disgust towards the prosecutor and the questions in general. Eventually he stopped questioning me. After this he brought one of the RCMP officers back to the stand. Showed him the video and asked if he wanted to add anything to his testimony. He said no. I got to question the officer and confirm every detail of his testimony was wrong based on the video evidence that was submitted. He agreed that everything was wrong.

    The prosecutor then rested his case. We both gave closing statements. The judge took all but 10 seconds to come to a conclusion. She started with grilling into me for a few minutes.. she mentioned i got a bit defensive on the stand. She agreed the officers testimony was so specific and detailed that its evidence is over whelming but.. then she said the video evidence can not be ignored. That the video shows a vastly different version of events. It showed the officers version of events didn't happen at all and that there was extreme doubt in almost everything that happened.

    At this point in her speech she must have apologized to the RCMP officers 5 or 6 times as she eventually announced that she had to withdraw the ticket. I WON!! I WON!! But WTF did i just go through???
    Last edited by gwill; 04-23-2019 at 11:17 PM.

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    Now the questions that are burning inside of me. Can a prosecutor purposely bully people like this one did all morning just to get people to plead guilty? Many people plead guilty under the fear that if they went to trial that they'd be stuck with higher fines that they couldn't afford. Other burning question is why did the judge continuously apologize to the rcmp officers? They just got caught lying on the stand. Thats perjury. Lastly, if you were in my shoes do you file formal complaints for the lies shared on the stand?

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    You can't get a higher fine than what you were given initially lol. That's complete bullshit and I never heard of anything like this.

    What small town is this?

    On another note, I've been in court as well when cops lied on the stand as well saying shit that never happened because they probably forgot what really happened and relied on poor memory or shitty notes.

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    This sounds like the Ponoka court. Same deal, threats of trying to go to trial, I would get fucked worse. I went in there in my teens with a solid case, argued all the points correctly, only for all my evidence to be thrown out because I did not have a certificate to prove I was an expert at math, even though this was grade school shit. The rcmp has a certificate trained for pressing a stop watch. My argument was that human reaction time could deviate the speed by something like 20km/h while I got ticketed at 15 over.

    Ya I drive the speed limit thru Ponoka now. Too many horror stories haha.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    No "formal complaints for the lies". Take your money and run.
    Litigation is a lottery. We have a legal system, not a justice system.

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    It's a shame you didn't have a recorder going before the trial when the Crown said all that BS - it'd make a fantastic YT video to show just how corrupt and fucked up our so called "justice" system can be.

    You should call up the RCMP professional standards and file a complaint, and explain that for us civilians "misremembering" testimony is typically perjury, while the cops often skate. My father after he was hurt from a fall from a rappelling line while training was made court officer in a similar small town court while he was recovering back when he was a cop. It's unreal the crap that happened even back then, and this story doesn't surprise me whatsoever. I think I'd be way more angry about the Crown's behavior and statements than the officers, everyone's memory after 6 months and countless incidents in between can and will be compromised.

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    As soon as I read "I got pulled over in a small town by the RCMP", I thought Ponoka.

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    Wow. That is some fked up shit.
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    Don't they record what happens?
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    Im the one with a learning disability....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Don't they record what happens?
    I was wondering about this too. The officers dash cam footage should've been part of disclosure. And if it wasn't that's a big red flag as it means there is no evidence to support their testimony on it. But possible some odd ball small towns don't have dash cams yet?

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    Holy shit! Thanks for sharing.
    Not surprised about rural RCMP, had similar issues in High River. Surprised at the prosecutor and judge attitudes though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Penguin View Post
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    Holy shit! Thanks for sharing.
    Not surprised about rural RCMP, had similar issues in High River. Surprised at the prosecutor and judge attitudes though.
    I wonder how things went for the person after you.
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    you may have won the case, but if possible i'd stay as far away from that rcmp detachment as possible. they will find some reason to pull you over and give you more tickets (even if you will fight them too) just to show they can make you waste your time and resources. similar thing happened to me in Calgary at the courthouse. little man cop was fuming mad that people were fighting his tickets, was telling the same bs stories (fines will go up if you fight and lose, who do you think the judge is going to believe more? a cop or some random?). my tickets were bs to begin with; running a yellow light and unsafe lane change (from 15 blocks away apparently he saw it). was able to get the yellow light dropped but he was sticking with the unsafe lane change. stupid pricks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Don't they record what happens?
    Thinking about this a bit more it is a bit strange my stop didnt have a dash cam from the rcmp vehicle. It was an under cover vehicle and I think the one guy was newer. But as I sat there early on I saw them handing out many CD's with peoples disclosures which I assume was dash cam videos.

    I'm sure if there was a video that I would have been provided it. I did request it if there was on with my disclosure.

    Quote Originally Posted by speedog View Post
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    I wonder how things went for the person after you.
    Haha. Yeah I wonder as well. I got the heck out of there when I won tho. By that point there had been so much yelling, so many stare downs and so many demands by the prosecutor that I wanted to gtfo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman.45 View Post
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    It's a shame you didn't have a recorder going before the trial when the Crown said all that BS - it'd make a fantastic YT video to show just how corrupt and fucked up our so called "justice" system can be.

    You should call up the RCMP professional standards and file a complaint, and explain that for us civilians "misremembering" testimony is typically perjury, while the cops often skate. My father after he was hurt from a fall from a rappelling line while training was made court officer in a similar small town court while he was recovering back when he was a cop. It's unreal the crap that happened even back then, and this story doesn't surprise me whatsoever. I think I'd be way more angry about the Crown's behavior and statements than the officers, everyone's memory after 6 months and countless incidents in between can and will be compromised.
    I'm not sure but I'd assume I cant record in the court room. There are also already mics in there for the entire trial that i could get access to. If I lodge a complain with the rcmp this will become part of the evidence in that complaint.

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    This whole scenario is so fucked. I mean part of me is at least content that the judge ruled in your favour and didn't dismiss the evidence you provided. On the other hand, this was clearly everyone against you which is total bullshit.

    Can someone with real legal experience say if tickets can go up after court rulings or not? I have never heard of this before and frankly I'm surprised the judge allowed it in open court. Given this was a public matter, the judge and prosecutor's names should be able to be publicized.

    Some Beyond Baller should get a measily ticket and go in there with a high end lawyer just to shit down that guy's throat and put him in his place. The fact he scared 90% of the people there to plead guilty by some bogus claim seems like a crime in and of itself.
    Last edited by msommers; 04-24-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by infamous View Post
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    you may have won the case, but if possible i'd stay as far away from that rcmp detachment as possible. they will find some reason to pull you over and give you more tickets (even if you will fight them too) just to show they can make you waste your time and resources. similar thing happened to me in Calgary at the courthouse. little man cop was fuming mad that people were fighting his tickets, was telling the same bs stories.
    This is what my wife says, not to push things any further. I'm all for standing up for peoples rights so I think I need to lodge a few complaints. I'm curious if the prosecutor broke any rules and definitely interested in holding the rcmp accountable. Just need to think about things a bit before proceeding.

    The reason I have dash cams is because I've had a similar experience with the police where they lied on the stand before. So I was prepared with all sorts of evidence at this trial as I expected certain things to be said and I was ultimately right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msommers View Post
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    This whole scenario is so fucked. I mean part of me is at least content that the judge ruled in your favour and didn't dismiss the evidence you provided. On the other hand, this was clearly everyone against you which is total bullshit.

    Can someone with real legal experience say if tickets can go up after court rulings or not? I have never heard of this before and frankly I'm surprised the judge allowed it in open court. Given this was a public matter, the judge and prosecutor's names should be able to be publicized.
    As I stood for my trial the prosecutor explicitly stated that I understand my risks that the ticket can be $287 up to $1000 depending on how the court decided at the end. I had to agree to this before proceeding.

    I agree I've never seen this. Never had this stated on a previous traffic ticket that I fought. This was new for me.

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    What other evidence did you have or things to get ready? Inquiring minds would like to know...

    I wonder about the ticket increasing if that's some sort of BS "verbal contract" that you essentially "signed".

    You should call or make an appt with Alberta Legal Aid just to get an idea on where this stands. http://www.legalaid.ab.ca/contact/Pages/default.aspx
    Last edited by msommers; 04-24-2019 at 08:26 AM.
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    Here are some interesting articles about this subject:

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...e_who_lie.html

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayed...ourt-1.4589643

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...e-who-lie.html

    If you do some searching, you will probably find that in Canada, police perjury is almost universally accepted and not punished but in the US it is taken extremely seriously, to the point that the entire testimony history of an officer could be reviewed and every case they touched be reopened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msommers View Post
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    What other evidence did you have or things to get ready? Inquiring minds would like to know...

    I wonder about the ticket increasing if that's some sort of BS "verbal contract" that you essentially "signed".

    You should call or make an appt with Alberta Legal Aid just to get an idea on where this stands. http://www.legalaid.ab.ca/contact/Pages/default.aspx
    I expected to hear them say I drove with my knees so I had lots of photos of my truck and steering wheel showing it was impossible. I assumed they'd say they saw a light glowing from my phone so I took photos of me in my truck with my phone turned on at its brightest setting which you couldnt see. Obviously had my dash cam video.

    Lastly I took shots of my truck with the glare from my windows that would have made it really hard to see inside. They kept claiming they had no obstructions which I wanted to be prepared for.

    Lastly the most important part to everything is having the judge believe your testimony. Keep your answers simple and short. I did get a bit cocky on the stand at one point which is never a good idea.

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    Disgusting abuses of authority. Glad you won. Evidence yet again that traffic enforcement is largely nothing more then revenue generation.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
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