Distracted driving ticket court case - did i win or lose?

[gwill]

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The transcript should have everyone in attendance.

Finally got ahold of a nice lady at the court house who got me the correct spelling of the one officers name. She said transcripts are crazy expensive so she spent 2 minutes to help me out.

I conveniently left out the reason for why I needed the name but she helped out and got me what I was missing.

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Phil, in your opinion - perjury in a traffic court room - how much effort does the OP have to put into this and what are the potential results of a 3-5 year investigation with RCMP K Div brass?

For eg. I can see a member being reassigned and an official apology being issued - but the OP is out all his time and thousands in lawyer/legal fees.

Even then, does anything change? The RC's are still very much an old boys club - no matter how much LGBTQ press the HQ puts out in Ottawa.

I've officially submitted a complaint now that I got the last name of the officer. In doing so the rcmp website did not work. I had to submit it over the phone.

I won't be paying a lawyer for the complaint. I'll be doing this all myself. So far what I learned is the complaint will be take a while to get started(up to 45 business days). Every 30 days I'll be provided an update in writing on any progress. Apparently the rcmp will assign an officer to investigate their own member. They said summer can be a busier time for complaints and it may take longer. I'm assuming due to summer vacations??

While it was a civilian committee that took my complaint all they do is review things. She did mention it's hard to prove the officers intent when lying on the stand and asked me to submit specific examples of the lies. It sounds like it's going to be a long process.

I've also filed a complaint with the law society over my concerns with how the prosecutor handled the entire day at the court house. Did this as no one from the prosecutors office has replied to my emails or returned any voice mails in my attempts to chat with them first.

And for the record this didnt happen in ponoka. Not that it matters.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Good on you for pursuing this.

I genuinely hope something comes of it but I will be shocked if there is any significant punishment whatsoever, let alone a (seemingly well deserved) perjury charge.

[msommers]

Without the transcript this could be hard but still, if the assholes name comes up again, it could really mean they do more digging.

Good on you for doing this.

[tonytiger55]

Was the RCMP officer under oath..?

[phil98z24]

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Phil, in your opinion - perjury in a traffic court room - how much effort does the OP have to put into this and what are the potential results of a 3-5 year investigation with RCMP K Div brass?

For eg. I can see a member being reassigned and an official apology being issued - but the OP is out all his time and thousands in lawyer/legal fees.

Even then, does anything change? The RC's are still very much an old boys club - no matter how much LGBTQ press the HQ puts out in Ottawa.

It shouldn’t take much effort, because if there is enough evidence of deceit and perjury, they’ll pursue it relentlessly, especially after our own internal inquiry revealed the failings of our service to adequately address these sorts of matters. Deceit in this line of work is a flat out, no questions asked, you’re done, transgression. You have no credibility anymore and you aren’t useful, both in terms of trust and in the courts. It’s taken seriously.

Also, this shouldn’t cost the OP a dime. Complaining about actions of the state shouldn't cost the person making that complaint, unless it’s vexatious and frivolous. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it investigated by an external agency to ensure the integrity of the investigation, given the current state of affairs in policing and questions of accountability, ethics, etc.

It doesn’t change if people don’t ask for change. I am an advocate of people complaining about the people who do wrong in this profession, either to correct mistakes or all the way to ultimately dismissing them as they are unfit for duty. Properly demanding accountability makes us all better.

[spikerS]

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It doesn’t change if people don’t ask for change. I am an advocate of people complaining about the people who do wrong in this profession, either to correct mistakes or all the way to ultimately dismissing them as they are unfit for duty. Properly demanding accountability makes us all better.

Hey @phil98z24 good to see you still around.

Could I ask you, in your personal and professional opinion and of course with your experience, given the context as presented by the OP (assuming all true statements by the OP), what are the chances that these 2 RCMP officers are going to be in any hot water, or is this kind of instance really weak if there are no other examples of these 2 officers showing this type of behavior?

[Kloubek]

Entertaining story. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for fighting for proper justice. Assuming it all played out as you say (and I believe it did) what you experienced was ridiculous. Sounds like one of those brutal one-sided courts overseas.

[gwill]

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Without the transcript this could be hard but still, if the assholes name comes up again, it could really mean they do more digging.

Good on you for doing this.

I'd assume the first thing the investigation will do is get the court transcripts. There couldn't be a better setting in regards to sorting out what was said. I suppose I could pay for this but if they are that expensive I'll let the investigators get it and I can give it a read.

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Was the RCMP officer under oath..?

Yes 100%. It was a trial.

[suntan]

Sounds typical. Lawyers gonna lawyer. Lawyers lie all the time in court. Character assassination is common. They are trying to make you slip in your story. They are trying to make you lose focus.

[JRSC00LUDE]

These are the threads where I like to see Phil chime in, it's no secret I'm pretty anti-authoritarian and anti-government in a lot of ways but if everyone in Phil's position were like him we would have a much nicer balance.

[spikerS]

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Sounds typical. Lawyers gonna lawyer. Lawyers lie all the time in court. Character assassination is common. They are trying to make you slip in your story. They are trying to make you lose focus.

lawyers are not under oath in the courtroom. It is their job to try and rip apart credibility by any means. They also don't usually directly accuse someone of something, or lie, but are usually suggesting/hinting at it.

[suntan]

Yup, you got it.

[gwill]

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Sounds typical. Lawyers gonna lawyer. Lawyers lie all the time in court. Character assassination is common. They are trying to make you slip in your story. They are trying to make you lose focus.

I hold no grudge against the prosecutor for doing his job while I was on the stand but his actions before the judge were in the room were questionable IMO.

It seemed as tho people were pleading guilty out of fear. There was a bullying and intimidation factors being used. He made it seem if people decided to go to trial for their ticket that they'd be worst off.

He didnt want people exercising their right to a trial.

[Disoblige]

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I hold no grudge against the prosecutor for doing his job while I was on the stand but his actions before the judge were in the room were questionable IMO.

It seemed as tho people were pleading guilty out of fear. There was a bullying and intimidation factors being used. He made it seem if people decided to go to trial for their ticket that they'd be worst off.

He didnt want people exercising their right to a trial.

That's what happens when you hate your job. You get jaded, grumpy and complacent.
He probably dealt with so many idiots in the past that he starts generalizing and judging people before they even speak.

[msommers]

While the prosecutor was able to do that, is a ticket legally allowed to increase in amount because you went to trial? I've only come across that you could be on the hook for court costs if the trial is longer than 5 days.

[suntan]

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I hold no grudge against the prosecutor for doing his job while I was on the stand but his actions before the judge were in the room were questionable IMO.

It seemed as tho people were pleading guilty out of fear. There was a bullying and intimidation factors being used. He made it seem if people decided to go to trial for their ticket that they'd be worst off.

He didnt want people exercising their right to a trial.

From my experience with lawyers "on the other side", this is normal behaviour from them.

[Rat Fink]

.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Even to write a ticket for a cell phone off a glow you see is bullshit. The new instrument clusters are so bright everyone has a glow on their face haha.

This. The info. screen in the new Ram is bigger than my fucking laptop. But a phone is illegal if you so much as touch it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Even to write a ticket for a cell phone off a glow you see is bullshit. The new instrument clusters are so bright everyone has a glow on their face haha.

Completely agree. There was someone on here who got a DD ticket for driving a manual, and another who didn't even have a phone in his car at the time he got a ticket for using one.

What is even more ridiculous in my mind, is that you can get a ticket for an officer seeing a glow on your face at a red light or hitting one button on your phone at a red light where there is zero danger, but while driving you are still allowed to:

- Have an extra large piping hot coffee in your hand
- Smoke a burning hot cigarette/cigar
- Eat / drink as much as you want
- Have a bunch of screaming kids in the vehicle throwing stuff at you, etc.
- Have a giant dog in the vehicle, unrestrained
- Play with your vehicles infotainment as much as you want, plug in electronics, put in a CD like it's 1995, enter long addresses into NAV, etc. which is all way more distracting than glancing at a smartphone to initiate a voice command or something
- Have alcohol in your system up to 0.05 BAL
- Put on makeup

I'd be fine with the law if there was any consistency whatsoever, but the way it is now it's set up as a pure money grab IMHO and ignores things that are far more likely to cause an accident.

[revelations]

^ there was a member here (or some other local group) that mentioned they were handing out more DD tickets now than speeding tix. And it wasnt reaching either - these people were texting with their phones visible on the steering wheel or calling with it in their ear.