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Thread: Proposed new/expanded Alberta parks - Bighorn Country

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    Default Proposed new/expanded Alberta parks - Bighorn Country

    I'm surprised this isn't already an ongoing discussion. To me this is one of the larger initiatives of the current Alberta Government.
    Here's the government website : https://talkaep.alberta.ca/bighorn-country
    And some third parties:
    Alberta Wilderness Association is in favour https://albertawilderness.ca/issues/...ncern/bighorn/


    Public consultations have been a mess. With allegations of threats and bullying.

    Here's an overview map:
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    Sounds like the vision is somewhat like Kananaskis Country, which is a combination of several provincial parks, recreation areas, and other protected areas that provide opportunities for recreation, conservation and even industry. It's my opinion that Kananaskis has been a huge success. I would hope that this bighorn country could replicate that success.

    What say you? Good? bad? What details bother you? What did the government get right or wrong with this proposal?
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    I thought it WAS a thread here. Must've been FB or something I saw the endless bitching about this. Basically a lot of outdoors people are pissed off because it will eliminate the ability to use a motorized vehicle in this parks area that people are already enjoying without the Governments control over it.

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    No, the government does not need any more control over areas that will strangle their usage in the future.

    And motorized vehicles should be allowed in this area, they are basically making anywhere you'd want to go quad'ing/offroad in Alberta off limits.

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    American interests have been trying to get land from the Yukon to Yellowstone blocked off as a national park and this is a big piece of this. This isnt being done for albertans it's being done at the request of American environmentalists.

    The big issue with this has been the lack of consultations. The lies from shannon Phillip's spread in the media as well as the leaked emails from the ndp outlining that the park is all but done.

    The leaked emails have requested the decision makers to stay quiet until its finalized. The leaked emails also show that the park should have been announced already. The only reason it wasnt was due to these emails being leaked and the outcry for consultations to happen.

    Their also pushing this park ahead of many other parks that are higher on the priority list that have been discussed for 3,4,5+ years yet they want to push the big horn through in a fraction of the time???

    IMP theres too much sketchiness in this proposal and too many unknowns to support It. Theres also the fact the ndp lied about the castle park and did a complete 180 with a few of the decisions they made there so it's hard to trust anything they say on this new proposal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    I thought it WAS a thread here. Must've been FB or something I saw the endless bitching about this. Basically a lot of outdoors people are pissed off because it will eliminate the ability to use a motorized vehicle in this parks area that people are already enjoying without the Governments control over it.
    The biggest misconception on those opposed to this park is that it's an OHV issue. That's not what I see from this. There is a lot more to it then a small user base who may want to quad.

    If that's all you think people are upset about then you haven't really been following the park proposal much but your not alone tho as lots of the media have stuck to this as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill View Post
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    The biggest misconception on those opposed to this park is that it's an OHV issue. That's not what I see from this. There is a lot more to it then a small user base who may want to quad.

    If that's all you think people are upset about then you haven't really been following the park proposal much but your not alone tho as lots of the media have stuck to this as well.
    I definitely don't claim to have any knowledge of this. I just know what I've seen people talking about online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill View Post
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    The biggest misconception on those opposed to this park is that it's an OHV issue. That's not what I see from this. There is a lot more to it then a small user base who may want to quad.

    If that's all you think people are upset about then you haven't really been following the park proposal much but your not alone tho as lots of the media have stuck to this as well.
    So educate everyone, what's the other issues with this proposal?
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    I am entirely in-favor of this park, and pretty well everyone who has complained about it, obviously hasn't read the plans (or stopped raging long enough to understand them). The Reeve of brazeau was on CBC bitching about how much its going to destroy industry in the West Country, yet there is virtually no change to that, its just being changed to a Public Land Use Zone, versus a complete and utter free-for-all. The so called leaked emails are also hilarious when read in entirety (which is why the news has not brought them up as evidence), as they dont say anything incriminating in the least. The misleading information on this is amazing. National Park? It's entirely provincial, with no national park implications in the least.

    My personal favorite, is all the crowd bitching about not being consulted, yet are the same ones screaming 'build that pipe'..

    For those that want to read a very quick summary..

    https://www.albertaparks.ca/media/64...nsolidated.pdf

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    Anyone who has enjoyed K-Country, should be all over this..
    Last edited by Brent.ff; 01-30-2019 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.ff View Post
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    Virtually the only thing that changes, is some loss of OHV.
    Which I understand you wouldn't believe to be an issue to anyone, but is actually an issue to a large portion of the Alberta population who doesn't live in Calgary/Edmonton and travel to these locations for a day to go "hiking".

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy1 View Post
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    Which I understand you wouldn't believe to be an issue to anyone, but is actually an issue to a large portion of the Alberta population who doesn't live in Calgary/Edmonton and travel to these locations for a day to go "hiking".
    Unfortunately for the OHV crowd, they have an inordinately high impact, for a relatively low base of use (and the number of OHVers in Alberta is absolute infinitesimally small compared to those without who are enjoying the outdoors). OHVers built their own grave with how they've treated public lands in the last 30 years, and it shouldn't be surprising to any that there is going to be restrictions on them.

    I grew up random camping in the livingstone, and was slowly chased up into the upper oldman, further and further every year by idiots on OHVs trashing the place, until finally i couldn't take it anymore and now gladly pay to camp in the Parks where they dont go. Tent villages, toy haulers that dont move for 6 months, outhouses literally dumping into the rivers, spend any time in the PLUZs down south, and you wont have much pity for them..Hell people build bridges specifically for them, and yet you still get yahoos going up and down the creek immediately adjacent to it
    Last edited by Brent.ff; 01-30-2019 at 04:00 PM.

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    Brent - They didnt plan to consult until after the emails were leaked and the opposition mla's started raising hell. The emails stated the park was to have already been announced but thanks to the emails they've now at least pretended to consult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.ff View Post
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    Unfortunately for the OHV crowd, they have an inordinately high impact
    Yes, relative to WALKING they do, as does basically any activity besides using your own two feet

    Nice claim about the size of OHV base, please by all means supply data that doesn't include every family and their grandma who purchases a park pass to "hike" somewhere.

    Edit-
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.ff View Post
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    I grew up random camping in the livingstone, and was slowly chased up into the upper oldman, further and further every year by idiots on OHVs trashing the place, until finally i couldn't take it anymore and now gladly pay to camp in the Parks where they dont go. Tent villages, toy haulers that dont move for 6 months, outhouses literally dumping into the rivers, spend any time in the PLUZs down south, and you wont have much pity for them..Hell people build bridges specifically for them, and yet you still get yahoos going up and down the creek immediately adjacent to it
    "Trashing the place" aka "its not how I WANT it to be so I'm mad". Typical authoritarian leftist

    I've seen the shit left behind by hikers all over the place in Alberta, to somehow make it sound like they are any better is laughable. You're mad because some quads tore up the dirt.
    Last edited by HiTempguy1; 01-30-2019 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    So educate everyone, what's the other issues with this proposal?
    My main issue is how secretive everything is behind the scenes and most importantly why is this bighorn park jumping the queo when there have been other parks being planned for many years yet this one out of no where becomes the one they want to rush through???

    There are more questions then answers at the consultations that are happening as they arent answering or addressing anyone at these meetings.

    Interestingly enough many of the small towns and counties have spoken against the park due to the lack of answers and the rushed nature that this proposal is taking.

    What's the rush?? Simple answer is theres an election happening and they wanted it announced and completed before this happens.

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    These are the so called leaked emails. When read in their entirety, All they show is that the NDP realized that consulting on the NSRP would be insane (you know, running from B.C. to Sask, through Edmonton, etc), and announcing consulting on the bighorn.
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    And then this one just saying hey it’s not out yet, hold off talking about it
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    These are hardly smoking guns except when the neurotics get ahold of them with a highliter. Literally talks about consultation in September, and it wasn’t announced until November..
    Last edited by Brent.ff; 01-30-2019 at 04:48 PM.

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    There are a lot more leaked memos then that Brent speaking to the launch of bighorn to be announced last Sept. IMO it shows it's a foregone conclusion.

    If their original timelines of Sept held there would have been next to no consultations at that time.

    Lets not forget shannon Phillip's and the numerous lies she continued to spread through the media that were all lies used to shut down consultations. Our minister refuses to attend these meetings. No answers are provided at the meetings. All they provide are a few displays.

    Regardless of what outcome you want for the bighorn park it wouldnt be this way if the ndp handled this properly. The NDP have royally screwed this proposal up.

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    Post the memos..and I don’t disagree that Phillips screwed up with the cops thing, but the park is still worth it
    Last edited by Brent.ff; 01-30-2019 at 05:22 PM.

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    And then promptly closes all the OHV trails in Castle. As for Bighorn, they already started putting up signage and closing the trails now. It’s pretty clear she’s a lying POS and doesn’t seem good at it. I signed a petition a while back to have her fired but Notely replied that they are besties forever.

    https://www.change.org/p/jason-kenny...lips-to-resign
    Last edited by Darell_n; 01-31-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    notleys website discussing the bighorn mentions 73% of albertans support the big horn park yet any news paper or online poll that's not run by the ndp show the vast majority are not supportive in it's current state.

    The consultations that happen have been well attended and the videos of some of them show ZERO supporters at the consults. Its interesting how the ndp can claim 73% support the park.

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    It’s no one’s fault but their own, if no one picked up on the ‘designated trail’ part of that email. Just because the trails are defacto, doesn’t make them designated.

    Gwill, while I don’t put much credit in polls, the only actual poll (random selection, margins of error, etc) is the one the province is referring to, and the ones put on by the newspapers have been bombarded by the OHV groups (to the point of telling people to vote as many times as possible). Furthermore in my experience, Open houses don’t typically collect people that are already in support of a Project

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.ff View Post
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    Furthermore in my experience, Open houses don’t typically collect people that are already in support of a Project
    How many open houses have you facilitated or attended? Typically non-contentious projects you are more than correct, but it is that no one attends them. The contentious ones are known to be contentious by the public so both positive and negative extremes attend of those most affected. I think it is most telling when you have local mayors and politicians in the public speaking negatively on the approaches being undertaken. Mayors, for the most part are a good barometer of public opinion in a smaller community.

    Whatever the case is, the minister lied or misled about ongoing RCMP investigations, and the RCMP came out said that’s not going on. Whatever the case is, it doesn’t smell right. She was attempting to create a false narrative and got caught in doing it.

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    The consults in red deer and edmonton were announced with 3 days notice. I think red deer is tomorrow. Edmonton Saturday and another location on Sunday. Sunday!! Super bowl Sunday....

    It seems they gave as little notice as possible for larger population areas. What's with the continued rush? Why are we giving next to no notice for larger population centers to attend??

    Oh that's right it doesnt really matter. Theres already a pre drawn conclusion for this park that its moving ahead.

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