Google bans Huawei.

[ZenOps]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/goo...cess-1.5142448

Trump ordered. The great cellphone wars have begun.

[firebane]

Huawei is causing grief all over the place even with FCC and 5g roll out.

This isn't surprising.

[ExtraSlow]

Tech companies are the only ones that really matter. Steel and canola are a sideshow.

[ZenOps]

Steel will indirectly affect the US ability to invade Venezuela. They need the iron wall up before they invade any Central or South American state, it would be foolish to do otherwise.

[revelations]

I have a HUAWEI phone - I prefer the Chinese get my mundane data over the NSA (which is closer to home).

[Xtrema]

This will basically mean Huawei will release Chinese version of OS out to the world. Chinese version of Huawei phones doesn't have gapps anyway since Google isn't allowed in China.

So in a way, US just lost their backdoor in spying everyone in the world and handed it over to China.

[Kavy]

Huawei has to spend a few billion on parts from American companies like Qualcomm don’t they? That’s money out of the economy because let’s be honest, China will be able to make knock offs of chips in pretty short order. Would be interesting to see their in an out revenue outside of China.

[KrisYYC]

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Huawei has to spend a few billion on parts from American companies like Qualcomm don’t they? That’s money out of the economy because let’s be honest, China will be able to make knock offs of chips in pretty short order. Would be interesting to see their in an out revenue outside of China.

Huawei already makes their own chips and modems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiSilicon

[ZenOps]

Apple was at the mercy of Intel for a while for their comms chips. Huawei has been doing ok with their CPU's and GPU's but their communication chips are absolutely trouncing everyone.

[Team_Mclaren]

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This will basically mean Huawei will release Chinese version of OS out to the world. Chinese version of Huawei phones doesn't have gapps anyway since Google isn't allowed in China.

So in a way, US just lost their backdoor in spying everyone in the world and handed it over to China.

that's interesting thought actually.

[ZenOps]

This little roadbump does have the capability of stagnating cellphone technology for a decade by my estimation. Bundled with the silicon 7nm wall. There is always a chance of regression as well.

2019 may go down in history as a "peak cellphone tech" just like how 1969 was "peak spaceship tech".

Never thought I'd see the day that the USA uses its financial power to "catch up to the other guy" though. Pretty lame USA.

[mazdavirgin]

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Huawei already makes their own chips and modems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiSilicon

https://www.ft.com/content/a002a9e4-...e-f4351a53f1c3

They are way way way behind everyone else on that front and need the foreign made chips for their cellphones to be competitive.

[ZenOps]

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https://www.ft.com/content/a002a9e4-...e-f4351a53f1c3

They are way way way behind everyone else on that front and need the foreign made chips for their cellphones to be competitive.

USA also needs a lot of electronics components and base metals from Asia. You can't build a screen without Indium, and you can't build many components without Neodymium. Arguably if push comes to shove, both the USA and China will no longer be able to produce anything.

Idiots. Samsung (Korea) and even Sony (Japan) might be winners in this. The USA and China will probably both lose, if the USA thinks it can be #1 by simply targeting China specifically - they have been getting very bad advice.

What I'm saying: If you pay a man $20 million to put a ball in a hoop, or thwack it with a stick - of course a lobster dinner is going to cost $500. To put things into perspective, a female cellphone factory worker in China makes about 10x more than a pro female Canadian hockey player. Canadian sweatshop.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ticle36139819/

To be honest, I have no idea how Canadian women haven't tried to lynch all the Canadian men yet (just keeping the thread on topic, lol)

[Xtrema]

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that's interesting thought actually.

It's definitely a possibility. Just look at how far Oneplus was able to take OxygenOS. It's probably even the best version of Android in the world, even better than Google own Pixel line.

So if the big 3 (Huawei/Oppo/Xioami) get together and prop up OxygenOS as a base and come up with a Chinese version Gapps services and release them like Amazon's FireOS, then discount the phone by $200-$500 or make it free, it's quite easy for them to flip 1-2 billions population on top of China's 1B and create a huge block of users to fight the west.

Now of course, other than Huawei, the other 2 allow unlock bootloaders so you can really put any OS on it you see fit but that's a very niche market. And this is only 1 layer of tech, still doesn't know how it will impact on the hardware layer. Huawei owns Kirin and TSMC/Softbank won't disown them so HiSilicon won't be impacted, they may still need other interconnects and parts that may be under this ban. But us vs them mentality means all businesses will lose markets or have to relocate so economy of scale is lost. So everything will get more expensive.

BTW, US is now setting up to going after DJI next.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/polit...ing/index.html

Also this is a good article what Huawei is facing, losing Google is way BIGGER hit than losing hardware suppliers, they are also losing apps.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...pply-problems/

If you believe in Huawei, it's time to pick up a cheap P30/20 as people are ditching them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8922001.html

[KrisYYC]

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https://www.ft.com/content/a002a9e4-...e-f4351a53f1c3

They are way way way behind everyone else on that front and need the foreign made chips for their cellphones to be competitive.

That article is behind a paywall.

Huawei uses their own HiSillicon chips in their flagship phones. The P series and Mate series use their own chips. Some of their cheaper phones use either mid-range Qualcomm or Mediatek chips.

[eblend]

This whole thing stinks of USA protectionism. Last time I checked NSA hacked everyone in the world before China....if anything USA equipment should be banned anywhere, but it's the righteous USA....so no matter. USA is doing same shit in Europe with Russia, telling everyone to ditch the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that Russia is building to deliver gas directly to Europe, bypassing Ukraine, yet USA is saying that Europe will be the slave to Russia if it's built...they are already a slave to the USA, and ofcourse USA sells LNG at much higher price as the alternative to cheap Russian gas.

USA is also threatening Turkey and India for their purchases of the S-400 anti-missile systems from Russia...because they want to sell their own shit and won't allow competition. Pretty sure Trump will go down in history as the one who started the downfall of the USA, really hope whoever is in power after him reverses shit he reversed, just to rub it in if nothing else.

[mazdavirgin]

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That article is behind a paywall.

Huawei uses their own HiSillicon chips in their flagship phones. The P series and Mate series use their own chips. Some of their cheaper phones use either mid-range Qualcomm or Mediatek chips.

When Huawei released its latest chip set in Shenzhen this month, the state-run Global Times newspaper hailed the “groundbreaking” development as a “boost” for China’s domestic chipmaking industry, “often portrayed as overly reliant on foreign suppliers”.

But the new server chip set, just like the telecoms company’s similarly feted advanced processor for smartphones, was only designed in China. It is manufactured in Taiwan, in the latest example of a persistent technology gap that hampers China’s efforts to become self-sufficient at manufacturing chips.

Semiconductor sector analysts believe that China’s best chipmakers are as much as a decade behind their international rivals. That is despite long running financial support from Beijing, rising market dominance of Chinese electronics hardware groups and the vastly improved capabilities of China’s chip design companies.

“It is going to be a long time before you have a domestic Chinese foundry that is going to be able to compete with either Samsung or TSMC,” said E Jan Vardaman, president of US-based consultancy TechSearch International, referring to the factories that make chips for other companies.

Beijing’s poor use of state funds slowed the sector’s development historically and a hardening attitude in the west toward Chinese acquisitions of semiconductor companies, technology and talent, had in recent years dragged on China’s ability to catch up, experts said.

The gap is likely to widen further because of the increasingly higher costs of chip making equipment and of the research and development needed to produce the most advanced processors — used in applications such as high-performance computing, high-end mobile and gaming devices and artificial intelligence.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, the world’s largest contract chipmaker with more than half of the contract chipmaking market, said on Thursday that it would continue with a research and development spend of 8 per cent to 9 per cent of annual revenues — a spend of roughly $2.9bn in 2018 — as it shrugged off a worsening near-term outlook amid a sudden decline in demand for high-end smartphones.

By comparison, Semiconductor Manufacturing International, China’s biggest chip manufacturer, is expected to have spent about $550m on R&D last year, roughly 16 per cent of sales.

“Manufacturing chips at the leading-edge is now incredibly difficult — there are no short-cuts — even Intel is struggling,” said Jim Fontanelli, a senior analyst at Arete Research in London. “The starting point is very deep R&D pockets followed by the best engineers in the industry. SMIC has neither. TSMC has both.”

Despite US fears over China’s rapid technological rise, analysts, underscoring the distance between the top players, point to SMIC’s most advanced chip — a 14 nanometre chip in testing for commercial production this year. Samsung reached this standard in 2014.

Given the rising costs of chip research, US-based GlobalFoundries and Taiwan’s United Microelectronics — the second- and third-largest foundry companies by sales, respectively — have in the past two years each quit the race to develop leading edge chips, instead focusing on innovation with more established chip sizes.

SMIC said it would continue pursuing the development of advanced technology beyond 14 nanometres.

Velu Sinha, Bain & Company partner in Shanghai, said Chinese semiconductor science and chip design capabilities were already at the cutting edge, but he noted challenges around accessing some of the key enabling technologies.

Chinese chipmakers have been hamstrung as the leading chip factory equipment suppliers, all groups outside of China, work with the industry’s most advanced players in developing the next generation of tools for making chips, according to analysts.

Dutch group ASML, for example, partnered with TSMC, Intel and Samsung in 2012 to accelerate the development of its extreme ultra violet (EUV) lithography technology, used to print and etch designs on to silicon.

TSMC now uses ASML’s EUV machines to make its 7-nanometre processor chips — the industry’s current gold standard used to produce the core processor chips in Huawei and Apple’s latest smartphones.

SMIC has spent $120m on an EUV tool, according to a Nikkei report, but Arete’s Mr Fontanelli forecast it would not be used for commercial production for “many years”. SMIC did not comment on its equipment purchases.

“It’s a bit like buying an F1 engine with no F1 chassis, suspension or aero and expecting to go racing,” Mr Fontanelli said. “EUV will be an important part of leading-edge production over the next decade but there is a huge amount of non-lithography work that goes hand-in-hand with EUV to bring a leading-edge chip through manufacturing.”

Experts said the Taiwanese and South Korean groups were again at the forefront in a wave of new technological developments sweeping through the semiconductor manufacturing industry. General-purpose chips are now being redesigned and optimised for specific tasks, and functions that have been separate, such as processing and memory, are now being combined on a single chip.

Bain’s Mr Sinha said such new technologies marked a “fundamental transformation” as the industry moved beyond Moore’s law— the process whereby the numbers of transistors on a chip doubled every two years which has defined competition in the industry for decade — and would create new opportunities for China’s chip industry.

And analysts would not rule out China’s eventual rise as a competitive chipmaker.

“It is not a question of if, it is a question of when. But we are not talking a year or two, we’re talking five to 10 [years] before those technologies [in China] get caught up,” said Mr Sinha.

In the meantime, however, Chinese electronics companies needing the world’s most advanced chips will still rely on chipmakers outside of China, according to Taipei-based Credit Suisse analyst Randy Abrams.

“If Huawei wants to differentiate against global companies . . . in 2021 they will still have to go to TSMC or Samsung for their advanced gear because those will probably still be the most advanced foundries,” Mr Abrams said.

Since pay walls are hard apparently...

[Sentry]

Trump said it was my way or the Huawei

[Xtrema]

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That article is behind a paywall.

Huawei uses their own HiSillicon chips in their flagship phones. The P series and Mate series use their own chips. Some of their cheaper phones use either mid-range Qualcomm or Mediatek chips.

China is not in the chip making business yet. They expect to be there by 2025. Consider they stole the OLED business from Korean in just 4 short years, stealing foundry secrets isn't impossible. If not stealing, it's only a couple missiles and invading forces into Taiwan and TSMC is theirs.

BRI and 2025 initiative is what woke USA up as China is buying into every country including Canada.

Trade and IP talks are just excuses.

This Huawei ban estimate will cost $11B to US tech sector as well. Nobody wins here.

The only up side to this story is that there will now be effort to replace Google regionally all over the globe and reduce the monopoly hold Google has over the world as US is no longer a reliable partner.

[ExtraSlow]

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Trump said it was my way or the Huawei

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