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Thread: Mistake to buy a gas powered vehicle these days?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 94boosted View Post
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    I think ICE cars are safe for years to come. I personally can’t see myself getting into a fully electric car until something like the Tesla Model 3 Performance has the build quality of a car costing $50K, let alone $85K and of course it actually costs $50K (in today’s dollars). I don’t see that happening for 5-10 years at least.
    That's just unrealistic. Nothing touches it in performance at that price range today, so I don't understand why you have a $50k target.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    That's just unrealistic. Nothing touches it in performance at that price range today, so I don't understand why you have a $50k target.
    Maybe he is comparing to used market?

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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-18-2019 at 04:52 PM.

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    Once EV are made in large volume, price will absolutely come down. They should be cheaper to manufacture because as you noted, they are much simpler.

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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-18-2019 at 04:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarphreak View Post
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    Electric cars are a lot more simple, they shouldn't really cost as much as they do now once it becomes more mainstream
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Once EV are made in large volume, price will absolutely come down. They should be cheaper to manufacture because as you noted, they are much simpler.
    Battery costs are the killer today. With that said, ICE has been so optimized, I'd argue a high efficiency electric motor today is more complicated to build than a basic ICE.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-18-2019 at 04:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    That's just unrealistic. Nothing touches it in performance at that price range today, so I don't understand why you have a $50k target.
    $50K to start, $60K fully optioned out for a car that can really only do one thing well (straight line acceleration) I don't think that's unreasonable 5-10 years from now, especially as the technology for electric cars gets refined and more competitors enter the market .

    As for nothing touching it's performance, yes it's fast in a straight line but that's pretty much it, as far as a performance if I was spending $85K today I'd much rather get something like an RS3, ATS-V, M3 etc. as personally I think those are better all around performance cars.

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    The Model 3 can do more than go fast in a straight line. Seriously people, are we making assumptions without even trying the car? The 3 Performance would destroy everything stock at an autocross. Run with those cars you listed at a track day for a few laps.

    The S might’ve been a boat around corners, the 3 Performance is highly capable even with those skinny ass tires. It’s probably one of the best point to point cars I’ve ever driven.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    There's a pretty good topgear video on youtube of a Model 3 vs. M3 testing day at a track. I was sad, but the Model 3 trounced the M3 in almost every test. The test is somewhat skewed in favor of the Tesla as they didn't test braking outright, but included a 0-100-0 test which lets the Model 3 use it's acceleration to get a better score. I'm sure the M3 is better on the brakes and over a longer multi-lap test would also probably come out ahead. The Model 3 is no slouch on track and over one lap is faster than the BMW.

    My next car will have some kind of a plug in. I'm not sure if it will be hybrid or battery, but I'm waiting for the Germans to come out with something reasonably affordable that gives me the fizz. The Taycan, Audi GT, and VW ID Buzz look super cool.

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    I thought the OP was out to lunch by even asking the question.... but apparently everyone is on board with driving electric cars in the immediate future and I'm out to lunch.

    Who knew

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88CRX View Post
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    I thought the OP was out to lunch by even asking the question.... but apparently everyone is on board with driving electric cars in the immediate future and I'm out to lunch.

    Who knew
    I think people are on board with driving electric cars when they are widely available and reliable, which won't be too far into the future. Throw in plug-in hybrids and I think they'll be a huge part of the market within a decade or so.

    Now, I don't think you'll be stuck with no buyers for a used ICE vehicle within any reasonable timeframe. So buying an ICE vehicle today is not any kind of "mistake".

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88CRX View Post
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    I thought the OP was out to lunch by even asking the question.... but apparently everyone is on board with driving electric cars in the immediate future and I'm out to lunch.

    Who knew
    Times... they are a'changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    The Model 3 can do more than go fast in a straight line. Seriously people, are we making assumptions without even trying the car? The 3 Performance would destroy everything stock at an autocross. Run with those cars you listed at a track day for a few laps.

    The S might’ve been a boat around corners, the 3 Performance is highly capable even with those skinny ass tires. It’s probably one of the best point to point cars I’ve ever driven.
    I'll be honest I've never driven one and was just making assumptions based on a 4100lb curb weight, 8.5" wheels and passive shocks (?).

    In autocross it's actually in the same class I compete in (BS) and so far at large US events I believe the only event it won was a ProSolo event in the rain where it had a big advantage due to its straight line acceleration. That being said the car definitely has potential, people are worried that there will be some crazy OTA updates that will give it a big edge.

    Around a track I'm not really seeing anything impressive.... https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...ca-lap-record/ ….. a 1:41 around Laguna Seca on r-comp Hoosiers and aftermarket suspension.
    Last edited by 94boosted; 06-03-2019 at 02:25 PM.

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    No one is going to stop you from driving an ICE car, but I suspect in the future it will make a lot more economical sense to purchase electric. That will be the main driver.

    Also in turn we will see less gas stations, more EV charging stations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 94boosted View Post
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    Around a track I'm not really seeing anything impressive.... https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...ca-lap-record/ ….. a 1:41 around Laguna Seca on r-comp Hoosiers and aftermarket suspension.
    That's on par with a 981 Cayman S and a lot of others. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disoblige View Post
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    No one is going to stop you from driving an ICE car, but I suspect in the future it will make a lot more economical sense to purchase electric. That will be the main driver.

    Also in turn we will see less gas stations, more EV charging stations.
    The concept of EV charging stations is fascinating to think about. Massive up front capital costs, crazy thin margins since you are competing with home usage rates for electricity.

    So are they there for regular use? Just for long trips?

    I think there is a big reason we haven’t seen any serious players jump into the segment.

    Aside from the virtue signalling businesses who are just giving electricity away for free to make themselves look green.

    The biggest thing preventing me from trying a model 3P is that I would have to look at it every day, there is one in my parkade at work and that’s painful enough
    Last edited by killramos; 06-03-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinL View Post
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    That's on par with a 981 Cayman S and a lot of others. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988
    Yes but once again that time was set on Hoosiers and a proper suspension, none the less the ATS-V, M4 and Alfa Romeo were all faster bone stock. All I was saying is that in terms of all around performance there are other cars I'd much rather have for $85K than a Tesla.

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    The M3 can run laps within a tenth of a second of its best all day long though. Everything i've read about Teslas on track suggested they're surprisingly good despite the curb weight, but that you'll basically get 2-3 hotlaps out of the car before it runs into battery issues...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    The concept of EV charging stations is fascinating to think about. Massive up front capital costs, crazy thin margins since you are competing with home usage rates for electricity.

    So are they there for regular use? Just for long trips?
    I imagine if we had tons of Level 4 chargers available it would eventually make sense for condo dwellers without a place to charge.

    My parents would love to get an EV as the incentives in BC are insane but they have no place to charge. The condo is on the higher end and was built in 2016 so maybe there is hope for upgrades, but having to go out and hunt for charging stations sounds like a nightmare.

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