Formula 1 Pirelli Grand Prix Du Canada 2019

[Buster]

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According to the rules, it's warranted. It's textbook unsafe rejoining the track. For the sport, especially for new followers of the sport, the decision sucked during race time. The fallout and drama is good for the sport though IMO.

Had a long discussion about this in our chat group, and I don't know if I want to truly let these guys race. One of the problems I have with IndyCar is that you get away with shit just to "enhance the racing", and at times, it's shitty unfair moves that go unpunished. That leaves a real sour taste in my mouth for an oldschool fan like me. F1, these guys will push everything to the limit if they know they can skirt punishment. Just look at how max defends the lead last year, really borderline, and everyone was pissed off at him. I dunno, maybe that shit IS good for the sport?

Their fuckup wasn't the determination that he entered the track unsafely (call could go either way). It was the punishment they levied. It was the stupidest possible thing they could have done. I was sitting in the stands knowing that the race was over the second that came up.

They should have forced SB to give the position back. Win-win.

[rage2]

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Their fuckup wasn't the determination that he entered the track unsafely (call could go either way). It was the punishment they levied. It was the stupidest possible thing they could have done. I was sitting in the stands knowing that the race was over the second that came up.

They should have forced SB to give the position back. Win-win.

There's no punishment at all in the rules. 5 sec time penalty is the most lenient penalty they can give.

They can't order SB to give the position back because Hamilton never passed him.

[cet]

It's consistent with what's been done in the past as well. At the Japanese GP last year there was a really similar incident between Max and Kimi, with Max being handed a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track unsafely and forcing Kimi off.

[Buster]

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There's no punishment at all in the rules. 5 sec time penalty is the most lenient penalty they can give.

They can't order SB to give the position back because Hamilton never passed him.

Make a new rule

[rage2]

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Make a new rule

And they'll get people complaining that they're making it up as they go along and zero consistency. Honestly, I don't think there is a silver bullet at all. You have this decision of applying the letter of the law, and everyone's pissed about because FIA is strictly enforcing the rules. Then you look at NHL and NBA, and it's completely inconsistent where games feel managed, and we're all pissed. Even you.

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Reffing in the NBA makes the game almost unwatchable. It's embarrassing

So yea, maybe we all just like to bitch? haha

[Buster]

Sports come up with effective deterrents which don't ruin the games when implemented properly. The vettel punishment worked as intended but still fucked up the product.

There are alternative forms of punishment that can work but not make 10 laps of a race look like a joke.

There is nothing equivalent to what happened in any of the other major sports. It would be like allowing a goalie to simply hold the puck for a period if his team was up.

Ferrari should have team ordered vettel to hold up Hamilton and allow leclerc to catch up.

[tonytiger55]

I think the problem with that track is there is no safe run off that allowed Vettle to rejoin in a safe manner. The rule perhaps would have worked perfect in Bahrain or USA where there are run offs. Then Vettle would have no excuse if he did rejoin in a unsafe manner.

I think you would need a different rule for Canada.

Rage2, why could they not treat this as a racing incident? Would they have needed to collide for that to happen?

[rage2]

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Sports come up with effective deterrents which don't ruin the games when implemented properly. The vettel punishment worked as intended but still fucked up the product.

There are alternative forms of punishment that can work but not make 10 laps of a race look like a joke.

The 5 second penalty was created literally to fix what you're talking about right now. Prior to the introduction of the 5 second penalty, the lowest form of penalty was a stop and go, and if it can't be served, 20 seconds time penalty. Ask Hamilton about that one in Spa 2008.

The proposal of having a rule that made Vettel give up the position wouldn't work at all. You would've been robbed of the last 10 laps of a race as Hamilton pulled away as Vettel struggled on the hard tires. Then everyone would bitch and moan about the position swap robbing the fans of a great battle of Hamilton fighting for a pass.

The 5 second penalty works 99% of the time. It just doesn't work properly in this exact situation where the leader gets the penalty, and is slower than the 2nd place guy but not enough where he can pass.

[Buster]

That wouldn't be great... But at least it would force the second place finisher to pass the first place guy.. Maybe he's fast enough maybe he's not.

It sounds like they need an additional too in their toolbox as the time penalty concept runs this risk.

It literally turned it from a race into a time trial event. It's why all other sports make penalties hurt once and immediately. And then they get back to the competition.

[rage2]

The backlash would've been 100x more epic with a drive through haha. Funny, it's the drivers that bitched about the severity of the drivethru and was all for the time penalty.

At the end of the day, Vettel's drama was not only delicious, but it stopped people talking about the fact that once again he cracked under pressure and made a mistake in the lead. If you look at it from that perspective, the result is correct.

[schocker]

I am still very salty about this race

[rage2]

Good view of the incident.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

Credit to @Mibz who interpreted the rules yesterday and came to the same conclusion before this article was published.

[OTown]

I disagree with the decision. Every ex-F1 driver on Sky, including a world champ, and other expert all unanimously disagreed with the decision. The majority of the crown disagreed. You could tell by Hamilton's body language that he did too.

Vettel made the mistake, no question. But if you rewatch in slow motion he went completely off the gas when he went into the grass, and tried to keep control of the car fighting the whole time, including full opposite lock, only going back on the gas when he got control of the car on the track. By that time he had gone back across the track and was trying to keep it out of the wall. But due to the design of the corner and geography (this is all on a downhill grade, no run off area whatsoever, very tight walls) there was no way he could safely come to a stop or slow down without spinning or crashing into the wall. To me what he did was the safest thing to do.

And Hamilton, a world champ and talented driver, should have read that better and driven more defensively, or taken the inside line. He knew he was getting squeezed, went in on a faint hope, then complained when he got stuck when Vettel under-steered.

Sure he broke the rules technically, but there should have been some consideration regarding terrain, dimensions, etc when making the decision.

Racing incident, regardless of who is driving.

[npham]

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Sure he broke the rules technically, but there should have been some consideration regarding terrain, dimensions, etc when making the decision.

Why bother having rules if they are broken and not enforced?

If it was a racing incident, then there's no rule breach. But you already said that Seb broke the rules...can't have it both ways - just like Seb/Ferrari wanted.

[rage2]

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Why bother having rules if they are broken and not enforced?

If it was a racing incident, then there's no rule breach. But you already said that Seb broke the rules...can't have it both ways - just like Seb/Ferrari wanted.

This. The drivers specifically asked the FIA to enforce the rules and enforcing it consistently. Which is exactly what the FIA did. Autosport had an article today on the stewards decision, which was because Vettel after regaining control opened up his steering to force Hamilton off.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

But yea, under the circumstances it ruined a good battle. No win for the FIA.

[revelations]

Nico Rosberg knows all about being chased by Ham. He agrees that Vettel deserved the penalty.


Vettel cracked under pressure (again) and was lucky he didn't spin. Rosberg also makes a great point about Vettel being a fucking whiner on the radio instead of MAYBE trying to get an extra 2 seconds by driving hard (he was ahead 3.3s) the last few laps. You never know what could have happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM

[OTown]

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Why bother having rules if they are broken and not enforced?

If it was a racing incident, then there's no rule breach. But you already said that Seb broke the rules...can't have it both ways - just like Seb/Ferrari wanted.

What I am trying to say is that sure, in a perfect situation with lots of run off and time to do so you go off track you should be able to slow down and avoid coming back to the track. But with this exact corner, design, and circumstances I just dont think he could do anything. That's why he was so upset, asking "where am I supposed to go?". He was a passenger for the most part, trying his best to solely keep the car in motion. There's not way he did that intentionally or dangerously in my opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

[OTown]

No penalty for this one, yet I think this one was way way more dangerous and lewis actually had control of his car after overshooting the chicane.

[rage2]

There’s another view of that Monaco one that shows Lewis left room the whole time. It doesn’t look that way at all on the in car.

[Misterman]

The simple answer is don't fuck up, and you won't have to deal with these types of subjective penalties.