Formula 1 Myworld Grosser Preis Von Osterreich 2019

[rage2]

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Hit an apex but not the most usual apex. Passing means that one or both of the cars is going to be off the racing line. All this bullshit drs passing has ruined everyone's impression of what a real pass looks like.

Off the racing line, perfectly fine. Off the track, if that's OK, then shit, let's make it a free for all consistently then. Bring back the good old days of racing where this was legal to win a championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo

DRS isn't really as gimmicky as you'd imagine. It originated from McLaren as the F-Duct to stall the rear wing for better straight line speed within the rules. Instead of everyone copying them and spending $, FIA just made it legal and cheap. I mean if we didn't have that, we could go back to the 90's and the 20 years of no passing era in the golden age of aerodynamics.

[phreezee]

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So always pass/defend on inside, outside has no right to the track. Got it.

Not at all. But awareness of what corner you are going into, who's behind you, how close they are, tire differential, etc is crucial in defending.
Everyone applauds when someone pulls off a pass on the outside because it is inherently harder. There's a reason they call it "going the long way round."

[phreezee]

Jolyon Palmer has a great video on this debate with a walk down memory lane.

[rage2]

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Not at all. But awareness of what corner you are going into, who's behind you, how close they are, tire differential, etc is crucial in defending.
Everyone applauds when someone pulls off a pass on the outside because it is inherently harder. There's a reason they call it "going the long way round."

Take a look, lap 68, where Leclerc successfully defended the position from the outside. It may be the "long way around" but for the Ferrari and it's attributes vs RBR, it works. Then look at lap 69, where he's run off the road, and didn't have an ability to defend the position again.

https://youtu.be/cV0G1zN8kJU?t=54

The reason why Max made the pass was because he forced Leclerc off the road. It's not legal as per the rules.

[Buster]

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Off the racing line, perfectly fine. Off the track, if that's OK, then shit, let's make it a free for all consistently then. Bring back the good old days of racing where this was legal to win a championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo

DRS isn't really as gimmicky as you'd imagine. It originated from McLaren as the F-Duct to stall the rear wing for better straight line speed within the rules. Instead of everyone copying them and spending $, FIA just made it legal and cheap. I mean if we didn't have that, we could go back to the 90's and the 20 years of no passing era in the golden age of aerodynamics.

Racing is degrees of subtlety but penalties either exist or they don't. So we ultimately have to simply draw a line between two similar events... One gets penalized but the other is not. This looks and feels like inconsistency but it isn't m

I'm fine with where they draw the line.

[rage2]

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Racing is degrees of subtlety but penalties either exist or they don't. So we ultimately have to simply draw a line between two similar events... One gets penalized but the other is not. This looks and feels like inconsistency but it isn't m

I'm fine with where they draw the line.

In my other chat, I had proposed a system where you draw a hard line on penalties. Letter of the law. However, you get a freebie each race, sort of a yellow card/red card situation. That will allow leeway, yet make it predictable for drivers and fans.

Wonder how that would work out, and what loopholes driver would use to take advantage of it.

[phreezee]

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Take a look, lap 68, where Leclerc successfully defended the position from the outside. It may be the "long way around" but for the Ferrari and it's attributes vs RBR, it works. Then look at lap 69, where he's run off the road, and didn't have an ability to defend the position again.

Jolyon covers laps 67,68,69 in the video I posted. Lap 67, 68, Leclerc parked his car in the middle of the road and was better positioned.
Sure the Ferrari has the power, but Leclerc shouldn't have left himself vulnerable. Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.
Max went for the gap he was given on lap 69.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=186

[rage2]

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Jolyon covers laps 67,68,69 in the video I posted. Lap 67, 68, Leclerc parked his car in the middle of the road and was better positioned.
Sure the Ferrari has the power, but Leclerc shouldn't have left himself vulnerable. Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.
Max went for the gap he was given on lap 69.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=186

Jolyon explains it better than I did.

Lap 68, Max was actually ahead of Leclerc and could've used all the space without any debate. Completely legal, was ahead based on the full on directive definition. Instead, he left room.

Lap 69, side by side, didn't leave room. Also shows that he unwinds his wheel so Max did intend to run him off the road.

If Max did it on 68, or waited a lap and tried again when he's ahead, he could've ran him wide without running into even an investigation.

End of the day, it's a shitty move on Lap 69. Period. Leclerc covered the middle of the road. The inside line looked to have worse traction, hence Max on 68 was beaten to the next corner even though he passed cleanly.

[OTown]

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Jolyon explains it better than I did.

Lap 68, Max was actually ahead of Leclerc and could've used all the space without any debate. Completely legal, was ahead based on the full on directive definition. Instead, he left room.

Lap 69, side by side, didn't leave room. Also shows that he unwinds his wheel so Max did intend to run him off the road.

If Max did it on 68, or waited a lap and tried again when he's ahead, he could've ran him wide without running into even an investigation.

End of the day, it's a shitty move on Lap 69. Period. Leclerc covered the middle of the road. The inside line looked to have worse traction, hence Max on 68 was beaten to the next corner even though he passed cleanly.

Yeah I've got to agree with Jolyon on that video. Its just not enough for a penalty, but I think Max should have given more room as he did the first try.

What a race though. Edge of my seat, I would agree this was the best race of the year so far.

[Misterman]

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Leclerc should have learned from lap 68 and covered the inside more on 69.

This is where it gets a little funny. Leclerc DID learn. He learned that Max couldn't make that pass by cutting the corner short. So there was no need to adjust. Everything should have worked out just fine, Leclerc shouldn't need to forecast that another driver would just say "Fuck the rules" and run him off the track, especially after said driver already learned himself he didn't have space for that pass attempt.

[phreezee]

Meh, don't bet on the other guy being nice and not hanging you out to dry. Nobody ever does that on purpose.

https://youtu.be/now3s1SM1_o?t=427

Subtleties of racing that Max got right to not get a penalty and that Charles got wrong in defending.

[rage2]

Would be hilarious to see everyone starts running people off the track on the inside to make a pass or defend starting now.

[phreezee]

It's already hilarious and gave us moments like this:

[rage2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fmkjf

BBC Radio review of the Austrian GP and the penalty. Pretty much captures my exact thoughts.

[phreezee]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07fmkjf

BBC Radio review of the Austrian GP and the penalty. Pretty much captures my exact thoughts.

Agreed, good commentary and it also captures my thoughts at 6m07s.

[tonytiger55]

[Buster]

Leclerc thought he could just drive around the track on a perfect line without needing to defend. It's almost cute when you look at it. Here's how car racing has been the last century: you defend the inside line, thereby slowing you down slightly from the optimal line around the corner. The guy behind you can use that to get a better run out of the corner on the next straight. Leclerc thinks this type of battle is below him I guess?

[rage2]

Can’t tell you what made Leclerc choose to defend on the outside, but it worked in the previous laps. Maybe he knew that the Ferrari has a huge power advantage and wanted a longer run that way because he would sacrifice a lot more against the Red Bull on the inside as mechanical grip isn’t the Ferrari’s strong suit.

One thing’s for sure from this pass and this thread, it’s got me defending Ferrari. Who would’ve thought.

[OTown]

Having thought more about it and watching that bbc podcast, I totally agree with them re: Villeneuve Arnoux in Dijon. I can see this being a very bad precedent.

[rage2]

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Having thought more about it and watching that bbc podcast, I totally agree with them re: Villeneuve Arnoux in Dijon. I can see this being a very bad precedent.

Yup. I actually rewatched Villeneuve Arnoux after listening to the podcast to see how it would be analyzed under today's regulations. Reference:



Interesting how both drivers left the inside open. Anyways, the investigation would go something like this.

1:23 both drivers make contact within track limits. No advantage gained, nobody run off the track, racing incident.
1:25 Both Arnoux and Villeneuve understeer wide with no contact. Arnoux left the track and re-entered safely. No advantage gained, racing incident.
1:33 both drivers make contact within track limits. No advantage gained, nobody run off the track, racing incident.

So maybe our rules aren't as bad as we thought they are.