Hong Kong vs China 2019

[Power_Of_Rotary]

The bigger picture of the issues HK and other entities will face is liberty. Freedom of speech globally has already been affected. Businesses including insurance, finance, entertainment, commodities, tech etc. have been compliant with China’s rules and doing everything to keep Chinese authorities happy. Many American companies include Hollywood studios, NBA, Apple, Blizzard, etc. Many are bending over and grovelling for the sake of financial benefits. This indirectly challenges and changes the core values of a democratic society. Government and corporate greed will sell their souls for money. While most citizens do not reap the benefits, they will have their liberty stripped gradually.

Perhaps these things do not impact people and jobs within Calgary. So who cares, right?

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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What really happened. With photos and video.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/0...ng-protesters/

TL;DR:
- Taxi driver was being mobbed and beaten. Tried to drive away to escape, and rammed into a crowd. (original short video that caused anger plus extended video showing beating prior to driving/ramming in link)
- Taxi driver was robbed. Allegedly had $27k of cash and watch stolen. Beat to shit (photos in link)
- At least 1 female protestor hurt
- Police arrest a 20 year old protestor (not the injured woman)
- Police visited female protestor. Unclear if she was even under arrest.

Fucking emotions are high, and news is just all over the map inciting deeper hatred for police. But hey, I guess you can accuse HKFP for bias or something?

Holy crap, Rage2. You're a disappointment.

You honestly believe the taxi driver had 27K worth of cash in his vehicle while working? The driver also claimed he had a 140k watch stolen.

Most taxi drivers in HK keep around 1-2k worth of small bills and change on shift. 140k watch would be equivalent to around 5-6 months of work for a taxi driver given the average income of taxi drivers is 20 - 30k a month.

[rage2]

You’d be surprised at how many poor people spend their life savings on a fucking gold Rolex that’s worth that much. Or passed down from parents. Or gift from kids. The $27k cdn (for reference) was total for cash and watch.

I’m just listing out what HKFP is reporting, and what the taxi driver claims. The watch claim is not unrealistic. Or the taxi driver was exaggerating. I’m waiting for you to call out HKFP as biased.

[rage2]

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The bigger picture of the issues HK and other entities will face is liberty. Freedom of speech globally has already been affected. Businesses including insurance, finance, entertainment, commodities, tech etc. have been compliant with China’s rules and doing everything to keep Chinese authorities happy. Many American companies include Hollywood studios, NBA, Apple, Blizzard, etc. Many are bending over and grovelling for the sake of financial benefits. This indirectly challenges and changes the core values of a democratic society. Government and corporate greed will sell their souls for money. While most citizens do not reap the benefits, they will have their liberty stripped gradually.

Perhaps these things do not impact people and jobs within Calgary. So who cares, right?

It’s not that nobody cares. It’s that what the protestors are doing is counter productive. As I said, all that will happen is 2047 will be on an accelerated timeline as the violence ratchets up and continues. Like both of us have said, it’s also clear that no other country will help out here. We’re all hooked on China. I suggested this at the start of the thread.

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/410...49#post4808149

Call me a disgrace all you want. I love Hong Kong. I hate seeing what’s happening today and feel the actions will result in the loss of Hong Kong as we know it decades before it’s supposed to happen.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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It’s not that nobody cares. It’s that what the protestors are doing is counter productive. As I said, all that will happen is 2047 will be on an accelerated timeline as the violence ratchets up and continues. Like both of us have said, it’s also clear that no other country will help out here. We’re all hooked on China. I suggested this at the start of the thread.

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/410...49#post4808149

Call me a disgrace all you want. I love Hong Kong. I hate seeing what’s happening today and feel the actions will result in the loss of Hong Kong as we know it decades before it’s supposed to happen.

Fair enough. I think we are relatively on the same page. Other than the fact I dont really see alternative solutions that could change the inevitable. Accelerated 2047 is in fact already happening with or without the protest. I cannot imagine a "peaceful" method. This applies to BOTH China and Protesters.

Based on the historical Communism under Mao:
"There is a general consensus among historians that after Mao Zedong seized power, his policies and political purges directly or indirectly caused the deaths of tens of millions of people. Based on the Soviets' experience, Mao considered violence to be necessary in order to achieve an ideal society that would be derived from Marxism and as a result he planned and executed violence on a grand scale"

Feel free to propose solutions that can fight for freedom against Authoritarian government. I believe it is important for more people to discuss these issues and innovate solutions instead of criticize the situation.

[Xtrema]

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Feel free to propose solutions that can fight for freedom against Authoritarian government. I believe it is important for more people to discuss these issues and innovate solutions instead of criticize the situation.

None unless the world is willing to isolate it economically.

And the world won't.

It's too little too late. Even with the lost decades, Japanese are still uber rich. I don't see there is any economic pressure you can impose on China.

[bob9979]

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Fair enough. I think we are relatively on the same page. Other than the fact I dont really see alternative solutions that could change the inevitable. Accelerated 2047 is in fact already happening with or without the protest. I cannot imagine a "peaceful" method. This applies to BOTH China and Protesters.

Based on the historical Communism under Mao:
"There is a general consensus among historians that after Mao Zedong seized power, his policies and political purges directly or indirectly caused the deaths of tens of millions of people. Based on the Soviets' experience, Mao considered violence to be necessary in order to achieve an ideal society that would be derived from Marxism and as a result he planned and executed violence on a grand scale"

Feel free to propose solutions that can fight for freedom against Authoritarian government. I believe it is important for more people to discuss these issues and innovate solutions instead of criticize the situation.

As I said before, you guys are free enough, and you don't cherish it, didn't know how this city was built today and now you wanna trash it in the name of "fighting for freedom". 2047 was set decades before handover, if you are sinophobia you can left HK right before 97 just like Rage. Otherwise embrace assimilation and enjoy low tax rate and all other benefits of HK. Bottom line for China is right there, no seperatism. Resort in violence you have ZERO chance of winning, cause your violence level is nothing compare to Chinese army. What disgusts me is you guys say 2 millions were protesting peacefully on August(claimed number), and assuming the majority support you, bully everyone disagree with your view, and mandarin speaking people, smash pro beijing shops and restaurants. What about the silent rest of 7 million? You guys are selfish AF.

[bob9979]

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The bigger picture of the issues HK and other entities will face is liberty. Freedom of speech globally has already been affected. Businesses including insurance, finance, entertainment, commodities, tech etc. have been compliant with China’s rules and doing everything to keep Chinese authorities happy. Many American companies include Hollywood studios, NBA, Apple, Blizzard, etc. Many are bending over and grovelling for the sake of financial benefits. This indirectly challenges and changes the core values of a democratic society. Government and corporate greed will sell their souls for money. While most citizens do not reap the benefits, they will have their liberty stripped gradually.

Perhaps these things do not impact people and jobs within Calgary. So who cares, right?

Since you mentioned liberty, you can google that before you post anything, in case you mixed up with freedom.

From wiki: "liberty entails the responsible use of freedom under the rule of law without depriving anyone else of their freedom."

The NBA thing is a compliance issue, if you're doing business in China you are subjucted to the Chinese rule, nothing to complain here.

"The core values of a democratic society" has been challenged all the time, most place in this world does not fit into the definition of democratic society.

and also, there is a thing called reletivism.

[01RedDX]

.

[speedog]

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Good work comrade, please head to nearest consulate to collect your 500 yuan.

Take your damn rep point.

[SilverRex]

It sucks when protesters in general are being branded the problem because of the few in the front lines who at some point decides to push the envelope. Dont forget it was not so long ago when 2m hk people were marching and protesting peacefully, they were making history for such mass gathering in the name of democracy without destroying anything. E.g. letting emergency vehicles pass thru like parting of the red sea, picking up all of their own garbage and cleaning up after wards, leaving bus/train passes and even money behind for others who needs it, just listing a few here. Then something changed. I believe majority of the hk people are genuinely out to do this peacefully however now it is being taking over by some one or groups organizing in the name of protest to further cause havoc. Was it China sending undercover police acting as protester and creating violence so they can crack down and control the crowd? Or was it a coincident that this history making event has something to do with Trump understanding how important hk is financially to China and any disruption to it's business has a directly impact and can become a leverage in it's trade negotiation.

If you look beyond this, there are sources that also suggest there is a group massively shorting the heng seng index. Are we to go back and start digging up a similar scenario like sept11 or someone has insider information to the timing of this all. What ever the underlying cause of this whole mess, I think hk is !@#$ed, it will never be the same. Everyone isnt going to sit around and wait for 2047.

Some are now saying this tension will never end and can go on indefinitely.

I just read an article that shows majority of the people when asked where would they go if they had to leave hk. Their first destination of choice was.... you guessed it.. Canada. Not a surprise considering peace and prosperity and freedom is their utmost desire at this point.

I see in the coming years, Canada as a whole will be absorbing this mass exodus of people. So get ready for bubble 2.0 when the average hk home owner has more money then us working here for a life time.

[Homerrca]

Uggg time to get off this planet

[ExtraSlow]

I don't have anything to add about the situation in HK, as I have never been and have no contacts there (aside from you fine beyonders). However, I assume people of means will leave that country permanently as quickly as possible.

In today's herald:

[rage2]

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2047 was set decades before handover

This isn't true. 2047 was negotiated in the joint declaration in the 80's. New Territories had a 99 year lease, HK was perpetually UK's. Thatcher could've easily given up just NT but instead negotiated both NT and HK return if it gave a 50 year one country two systems window. The idea was to protect the HK economy and real estate market. So blame Margaret Thatcher for where HK is today.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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As I said before, you guys are free enough, and you don't cherish it, didn't know how this city was built today and now you wanna trash it in the name of "fighting for freedom". 2047 was set decades before handover, if you are sinophobia you can left HK right before 97 just like Rage. Otherwise embrace assimilation and enjoy low tax rate and all other benefits of HK. Bottom line for China is right there, no seperatism. Resort in violence you have ZERO chance of winning, cause your violence level is nothing compare to Chinese army. What disgusts me is you guys say 2 millions were protesting peacefully on August(claimed number), and assuming the majority support you, bully everyone disagree with your view, and mandarin speaking people, smash pro beijing shops and restaurants. What about the silent rest of 7 million? You guys are selfish AF.

Lmao.. you sound... mainland Chinese....

To be honest, I too initially believed HK belongs to China and HK people need to suck it up or just leave. But witnessing the cruelty and authoritarian methods has changed my views. China needs to be push back, otherwise, even more countries and people will be affected. The efforts from a small city like HK is futile, but bending over is clearly not ideal.

2 million people came out to protest, 5 million didnt. The 5 million that didnt come out can be either "yellow (anti beijing)" "neutral" or "blue (police supporters)". Because the remaining 5m (mostly comprising of elderly and children) means all 5m support the HK/Chinese gov?

[rx7boi]

Man, I don't know much of anything about protesting but I gotta say, sometimes it feels like the people aren't gonna get anywhere with peaceful protesting with these governments nowadays.

No one grows up being an expert on this stuff so I think many people are just trying to do what they feel they can when folks such as myself wouldn't even know what to do.

[Disoblige]

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In today's herald:

Hope it boosts our real estate a bit and we become Hongary?
Man that would be good (for real estate) but also suck at the same time for other things. Mainly all the bad drivers

[ExtraSlow]

The rich hongers are bear already driving thier two e-class

[speedog]

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The rich hongers are bear already driving thier two e-class

Not enough coffee yet?

[rage2]

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The rich hongers are bear already driving thier two e-class

Damn.