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Thread: Hong Kong vs China 2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    To be honest, I too initially believed HK belongs to China and HK people need to suck it up or just leave. But witnessing the cruelty and authoritarian methods has changed my views. China needs to be push back, otherwise, even more countries and people will be affected. The efforts from a small city like HK is futile, but bending over is clearly not ideal.
    The writing was on the wall long ago. From the people that stayed behind, they knew this too, and just wanted to enjoy HK for what it is before it becomes one system. The youth is pissed sure, because it wasn't their choice to let UK roll over and just give everything back and trust China to do things right. They don't want this, they want HK independence, which China will never grant.

    HK can never be independent, China would look stupid giving in. HK can't even forcibly walk away, they need China resources to sustain itself. No other country will side with HK and fight against China. UK maybe, if they feel they have a responsibility because they fucked HK over giving it all back.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedog View Post
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    Not enough coffee yet?
    Not enough sleep. Kid problems at home.
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    people are afraid of the fucking gangster like police.
    The HK police are saints imo, If this were in Canada peeps wouldve been shot a long time ago. You're not getting away with a warning here if you wanna attack a cop

    Quote Originally Posted by Disoblige View Post
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    Hope it boosts our real estate a bit and we become Hongary?
    Man that would be good (for real estate) but also suck at the same time for other things. Mainly all the bad drivers
    I'll take the shitty drivers all day long lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    and I did not have the only say in the matter (most people just want it done ASAP and don't care about quality).
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    If anything we made a better decision because we had a consensus and were all on the same page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    The writing was on the wall long ago. From the people that stayed behind, they knew this too, and just wanted to enjoy HK for what it is before it becomes one system. The youth is pissed sure, because it wasn't their choice to let UK roll over and just give everything back and trust China to do things right. They don't want this, they want HK independence, which China will never grant.

    HK can never be independent, China would look stupid giving in. HK can't even forcibly walk away, they need China resources to sustain itself. No other country will side with HK and fight against China. UK maybe, if they feel they have a responsibility because they fucked HK over giving it all back.
    Everyone knows the fact is HK belongs to China and it is near impossible that HK can become independent. Not because HK is not strong enough to be independent, but China is way to petty and greedy to let go of HK. They even banned winnie the pooh ffs.

    However, bending over and taking it in the ass unwillingly is cowardly. And I praise the youth that are fighting for what they deem is important. So what if they lose?
    Originally posted by beyond_ban
    Yo Kanye, ima let you finish, but 50 Cent had the best concert cancellation of all time.

  5. #285
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    Well. I figure California has a better chance of gaining freedom from the USA than HK breaking away from China.

    Has anyone in HK actually done a poll/plebecite to see if they actually have a majority that thinks that independence is the correct course of action? I could swear there were just as many people protesting the British and pro-China not all that long ago. If its just a million or so students and right wingers and not a majority, then it might be worth rethinking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California Just like Hong Kongers, Californians are a bunch of whiny crybabies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum Not that China is a democracy, but you can have 49% of people one way and 51% the other, and the protest side still looks huge because they are protesting.

    If you can rally 3.7 million citizens to all raise up a placard at the same time in a unified manner and capture it on live video, you've got a shot at it. Even stronger, if you can get 3.7 million citizens to sign their names, have their photos taken, and claim that they want independence - I'd say you have a shot. Under a democracy that would be grounds for action, and if you can't even get enough support for action under democracy - then you have zero chance under British or Chinese rule.

    BTW: I still think British Colombia should be renamed.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 10-10-2019 at 10:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOps View Post
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    Well. I figure California has a better chance of gaining freedom from the USA than HK breaking away from China.

    Has anyone in HK actually done a poll/plebecite to see if they actually have a majority that thinks that independence is the correct course of action? I could swear there were just as many people protesting the British and pro-China not all that long ago. If its just a million or so students and right wingers and not a majority, then it might be worth rethinking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California Just like Hong Kongers, Californians are a bunch of whiny crybabies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum Not that China is a democracy, but you can have 49% of people one way and 51% the other, and the protest side still looks huge because they are protesting.

    If you can rally 3.7 million citizens to all raise up a placard at the same time in a unified manner and capture it on live video, you've got a shot at it. Even stronger, if you can get 3.7 million citizens to sign their names, have their photos taken, and claim that they want independence - I'd say you have a shot. Under a democracy that would be grounds for action, and if you can't even get enough support for action under democracy - then you have zero chance under British or Chinese rule.

    BTW: I still think British Colombia should be renamed.
    Hong Kongbia?
    Will fuck off, again.

  7. #287
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    I don't know much about China...but it's weird that an entire nation acts like a baby.

    I mean, they had hissy fits over NBA stars tweeting. lol. Ya, that makes you look strong China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I don't know much about China...but it's weird that an entire nation acts like a baby.

    I mean, they had hissy fits over NBA stars tweeting. lol. Ya, that makes you look strong China.
    China is essentially the white middle aged suburban housewife of the world, Susan’s if you will.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01RedDX View Post
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    Good work comrade, please head to nearest consulate to collect your 500 yuan.
    Thank you, If they were to pay me, I would like it in CAD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    This isn't true. 2047 was negotiated in the joint declaration in the 80's. New Territories had a 99 year lease, HK was perpetually UK's. Thatcher could've easily given up just NT but instead negotiated both NT and HK return if it gave a 50 year one country two systems window. The idea was to protect the HK economy and real estate market. So blame Margaret Thatcher for where HK is today.
    You are right Rage, it was in the 80s, but it was cold war period back then, US and China was in honey moon. It was easy to blame Thatcher, but HK was just a pawn in the game of power politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    But witnessing the cruelty and authoritarian methods has changed my views. China needs to be push back, otherwise, even more countries and people will be affected. The efforts from a small city like HK is futile, but bending over is clearly not ideal.
    Call me a mainlander FOB, I was born in Guangzhou, my step dad is from Hong Kong and I have friends and family members there.

    Tell me what exactly they have done to you? any details of authoritarian method?

    I'm not speaking for the Chinese Gov but I think HK people have a fairly decent level of democracy and freedom. The current system ensure candidates of HK CEO has to be nominated by Beijing, that's a minus, but understandable cause Basic law artical 23 wasn't enacted. There was a thread discussing the election campaign between US and Canada, the HK system are close to Canadian one on electing its legislatice council members. What was often critisiced, was the CEO election, an 800 members of election committee choose the CEO. Eligible Members of those are some elite hongers from different business sectors and professionals, many have business ties with mainland. All this HK democratic movement avocates are asking for a universal suffrage("one person one vote") system for choosing the CEO of HK. To me it is simply elitism vs. populism. Many hongers feel they've been less represented, but voicing out opinion and right to protest are not limited. Here in Canada, JT was not elected by "one person one vote", but are we satisfied with the outcome? What if Canada adopt the "one person one vote" system in election campaign this time?

    What China have done something unacceptable and unforgiven in HK was in 2016, the book store staff in causeway bay was arrested and transported secretly to China, that was some authoritarian methods.
    Last edited by bob9979; 10-11-2019 at 08:38 AM.

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    https://www.tweaktown.com/news/68072...ong/index.html

    On a crazier note, Blizzard bans forum posters for 1,000 years. I mean it is a gaming forum and if you specify no politics thems the rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    Everyone knows the fact is HK belongs to China and it is near impossible that HK can become independent. Not because HK is not strong enough to be independent, but China is way to petty and greedy to let go of HK. They even banned winnie the pooh ffs.

    However, bending over and taking it in the ass unwillingly is cowardly. And I praise the youth that are fighting for what they deem is important. So what if they lose?
    They destroy a great city if they lose. Literally give China the chance to roll forward one country one system on HK. If that happens, I'll be sad, but I won't be sympathetic. Pro dem is acting like a spoiled child. Throw a tantrum, and China gives in withdrawing the initial demand. Now they add 4 other demands including universal suffrage and escalate their tantrum. That will get you nowhere.

    Should have reorganized after China agreed to the original demand, which is surprising that they even did to say the least. Find some ally's, they have none right now, drum up support, and try to work a way to extend the 2047 deadline down the road.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob9979 View Post
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    Call me a mainlander FOB, I was born in Guangzhou, my step dad is from Hong Kong and I have friends and family members there.

    Tell me what exactly they have done to you? any details of authoritarian method?

    I'm not speaking for the Chinese Gov but I think HK people have a fairly decent level of democracy and freedom. The current system ensure candidates of HK CEO has to be nominated by Beijing, that's a minus, but understandable cause Basic law artical 23 wasn't enacted. There was a thread discussing the election campaign between US and Canada, the HK system are close to Canadian one on electing its legislatice council members. What was often critisiced, was the CEO election, an 800 members of election committee choose the CEO. Eligible Members of those are some elite hongers from different business sectors and professionals, many have business ties with mainland. All this HK democratic movement avocates are asking for a universal suffrage("one person one vote") system for choosing the CEO of HK. To me it is simply elitism vs. populism. Many hongers feel they've been less represented, but voicing out opinion and right to protest are not limited. Here in Canada, JT was not elected by "one person one vote", but are we satisfied with the outcome? What if Canada adopt the "one person one vote" system in election campaign this time?

    What China have done something unacceptable and unforgiven in HK was in 2016, the book store staff in causeway bay was arrested and transported secretly to China, that was some authoritarian methods.
    Holy cow.. You only realize the bookstore incident in 2016? China gov has become more Authoritarian under the leadership of Xi. The bill is just the beginning to stripping away the principals of basic law. The so called voting system is heavily represented by pro beijing people(all driven by a common denominator, greed). There is no real need to get into the details on this. It has been a long and ongoing issue. Look at how China is handling Tibet and Xinjiang. HK is only 'noiser' globally because of its international presence and free(er) media coverage. Communist China has always and still relies on genocide to secure power and authority.

    Every country is turning a blind eye to China for the sake financial benefits. This is the sad and understandable truth. No one wants to upset the big bully business partner. Yes HK is weak, yes the efforts are futile, but hell, better than being a spineless cowards and letting evil have its way easily.
    Originally posted by beyond_ban
    Yo Kanye, ima let you finish, but 50 Cent had the best concert cancellation of all time.

  15. #295
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    Well… Some people like authority. Trump could definitely be considered more of "do what I say" then "lets ask everyone what they think".

    You can't automatically assume that everyone wants democracy. Would the USA want a worldwide democracy where they get 350 million votes and China and India both get over 1 billion apiece? If you say yes, lets do it and see what happens! I would put dissolving NATO and NASA at the top of the list.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 10-12-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOps View Post
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    Well… Some people like authority. Trump could definitely be considered more of "do what I say" then "lets ask everyone what they think".

    You can't automatically assume that everyone wants democracy. Would the USA want a worldwide democracy where they get 350 million votes and China and India both get over 1 billion apiece? If you say yes, lets do it and see what happens! I would put dissolving NATO and NASA at the top of the list.
    Dont confuse Democracy with human rights treatment. Canadian electoral system is by seats in the house of commons. However, Canadians understand human rights and the government stands firm by it.

    While China has no human rights, especially towards those they feel threatened by. 1989 June 6 is an example of how peaceful protest turned into a military bloodbath.

    Many Chinese (mainlanders) do not know what happened in tiananmen square. Those that heard of it, do not believe the gruesome facts. They are brainwashed by at least 2 to 3 generations of suppression. Those who dare to voice out are usually killed or thrown into camps. China is just a richer and better marketed North Korea.
    Originally posted by beyond_ban
    Yo Kanye, ima let you finish, but 50 Cent had the best concert cancellation of all time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    Holy cow.. You only realize the bookstore incident in 2016? China gov has become more Authoritarian under the leadership of Xi. The bill is just the beginning to stripping away the principals of basic law. The so called voting system is heavily represented by pro beijing people(all driven by a common denominator, greed). There is no real need to get into the details on this. It has been a long and ongoing issue. Look at how China is handling Tibet and Xinjiang. HK is only 'noiser' globally because of its international presence and free(er) media coverage. Communist China has always and still relies on genocide to secure power and authority.

    Every country is turning a blind eye to China for the sake financial benefits. This is the sad and understandable truth. No one wants to upset the big bully business partner. Yes HK is weak, yes the efforts are futile, but hell, better than being a spineless cowards and letting evil have its way easily.
    Yeah, keep drinking the koolaid, those topics you mentioned are all complicated ones, blame China for everything and whatever you want.

    Supressing muslim extremist and destroying their culture is human right abuse.

    I guess you don't see any muslim females in Central Asia and Middle East dress like this Xinjiang lady.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    Dont confuse Democracy with human rights treatment. Canadian electoral system is by seats in the house of commons. However, Canadians understand human rights and the government stands firm by it.

    While China has no human rights, especially towards those they feel threatened by. 1989 June 6 is an example of how peaceful protest turned into a military bloodbath.

    Many Chinese (mainlanders) do not know what happened in tiananmen square. Those that heard of it, do not believe the gruesome facts. They are brainwashed by at least 2 to 3 generations of suppression. Those who dare to voice out are usually killed or thrown into camps. China is just a richer and better marketed North Korea.
    You are inserting you assumption again, and it's june 4 by the way. It is a taboo in China politics, people and the gov avoid to discuss the topic in public, but doesn't mean it's not heard of.
    And as I said before, narratives, not truth, when it comes to politics, both sides have their version of story, I don't believe the version of Chinese gov, but if you believe everything you taken in as facts, that's dangerous.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket1k78 View Post
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    I'll take the shitty drivers all day long lol
    Be careful what you wish for.
    I'd cash out and move out of Calgary pretty quickly if we became the new Richmond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    They destroy a great city if they lose. Literally give China the chance to roll forward one country one system on HK. If that happens, I'll be sad, but I won't be sympathetic. Pro dem is acting like a spoiled child. Throw a tantrum, and China gives in withdrawing the initial demand. Now they add 4 other demands including universal suffrage and escalate their tantrum. That will get you nowhere.

    Should have reorganized after China agreed to the original demand, which is surprising that they even did to say the least. Find some ally's, they have none right now, drum up support, and try to work a way to extend the 2047 deadline down the road.
    They lost their best opportunity, maybe they lost control of the youth? If everyone had gone back to work and school after withdrawal and Benny Tai out of prison, pro dem would have a great victory in the coming election. But everything is ruined by these crowd of young idiots.

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