Trump, his bullshit never stops

[Misterman]

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Is he really though? You have someone who's beholden to the deep state, which is inherently pro-American and defends American interests (as nefarious as some of them are) versus someone who is beholden to foreign interests and some of the worst dictators in countries that are hostile to America. You can make the argument that it's good for the rest of the world by weakening America's position but you can't tell me that it's good for America and their closest allies in the long run. I am of the opinion that America is the lesser evil that we must choose to support in this world, not their enemies. However, that is just my position and we have yet to see the long term benefit/damage of Trump's policies.

Not sure which deep state you're talking about? But no, the deep states push for globalism is a very bad thing. So yes, Trump is hands down the lesser of two evils.

[01RedDX]

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[Misterman]

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I dunno, what is the actual official definition of the term "deep state?" My understanding is basically the deep US administrative state, where intelligence agencies have nearly unchecked power. But others hold the idea that the military-industrial complex is at the top of the food chain.

Maybe yours and revelations' idea is more of a shadowy cabal of transnational bankers and industry financiers who use a vast network of interlopers to control or influence governments in an effort to subvert democracy and control monetary supplies. I guess there's 'some' truth to that but it has been grossly distorted and blown out of proportion.

Then of course there's all the other conspiracy theories, the "pizzagate" and secret pedophile society kind or r/the_donald who blame "treasonous leftist cucks" for everything or stormfront and other Trump-loving white supremacists with their evil Jews. You know it's just a concept and that none of these are official terms or actual definitions, right? Each began with a nugget or two of distorted facts and has become a strawman for Trumpers to deconstruct, because when you pretend something exists it becomes much easier to attack it and claim victory, aka Quixotic.

So tell me what exactly has Trump done to subvert your idea of the "deep state?" Is it his pointless zero-sum game with China? Endless "trade wars" with no real benefit to anyone? His nepotism and appointing cronies to top roles instead of actual qualified people? I'm genuinely curious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_s..._United_States

[01RedDX]

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[Misterman]

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Dude the first sentence in that wiki article is "In the United States, the term "deep state" is used to describe a conspiracy theory"

There's a huge difference between conspiracy theories and established facts. So again, what definition do you, personally believe and what concrete, tangible things has Trump done to subvert it?

Or are you just parroting "Trump vs the deep state" like everyone else?

HAHAHAHA! Somebody wrote the word conspiracy along with the definition on wiki, so now I can ignore it and pretend I'm a morally superior to everyone.

[01RedDX]

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[A790]

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HAHAHAHA! Somebody wrote the word conspiracy along with the definition on wiki, so now I can ignore it and pretend I'm a morally superior to everyone.

HAHAHA, I'm a contrarian who would rather spin up an elaborate web of bullshit rather than look at the abundant evidence all around me. Now I get to act all smart because my point of view can't be explained by traditional mediums and I get to act as if the rest of the world is aligned against my interests.

[pheoxs]

[revelations]

As far as the so called 'deep state' - its not limited to America.

Every major country in the world has a group of military/corp/religious people that are un-elected and sees the elected politicians come and go, over decades.

Whether they work WITH or AGAINST the elected government is another question entirely.

Countries like Iran/Russia are pretty obvious about it, while the western nations are not.

WIKI has an article on the Turkish deep state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_Turkey

[sabad66]

Just finished reading this 15 page statement from William Taylor (ambassador to Ukraine):
https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com...b6fd714783.pdf

Key thing to note is that this is not an Obama admin holdover, this is a career diplomat appointed by sec of state after they fired the old ambassador for interfering with Giuliani’s shadow foreign policy moves.

If this isn’t a smoking gun I don’t know what is. Only a matter of time before impeachment is official

[ExtraSlow]

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Only a matter of time before impeachment is official

What possible benefit does anyone get from impeachment? Seriously? It's bad for the entire country.

[rage2]

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What possible benefit does anyone get from impeachment? Seriously? It's bad for the entire country.

The left gets a talking point to whine about for the next 20 years.

[sabad66]

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What possible benefit does anyone get from impeachment? Seriously? It's bad for the entire country.

I see both sides to this argument. I agree it's a stain on the country and will only further divide. I've already said it before that i think it will actually result in helping to re-elect trump (assuming the trial in the Senate fails which is almost a certainty).

On the other side of the coin, Americans (moreso republicans it seems) are all about the following and honoring the constitution including the system of checks and balances. The framers defined a set of impeachable offenses, so in my mind, if someone is breaking these rules then they need to follow the process otherwise what is the point of having them in the first place? Righties in the US love their 2nd amendment and will defend that to their last breath, but then they don't want to enforce the impeachment protocols that are part of the same constitution? That is blatant hypocrisy in my mind.

For me personally, the man is just not fit for office. IMO the POTUS is supposed to be someone kids can look up to and aspire to be like or at the very least be someone who is respected. I have kids, and the last thing i would ever want is for them to look up to a guy like that or somehow think his behaviour is normal. At least if he's impeached, it shows that the checks and balances system works, and in a way condemns the behaviour.

And finally just to be petty, if clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job, how do you NOT impeach trump based on much worse actions?

[revelations]

The American constitution to the elites is just like the bible to churchies - you pick and choose what you want and just ignore the rest.

With things like domestic 'border' checks no where near a border, mass surveillance etc. - its all eroding away quick.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Just a few days ago Pelosi said there wouldn't be a vote "at this time" so who knows what they will actually do. As mentioned here many times already, it's probably better if they do not vote because the inquiry gives them everything they want already with none of the downside. When Trump 'survives' the process because the senate will never vote him out, he will ride that wave all the way into 2020.

[sabad66]

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Just a few days ago Pelosi said there wouldn't be a vote "at this time" so who knows what they will actually do.

Was that in reference to the vote to start the inquiry or vote for impeachment? Got a link? I’m curious now

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Was that in reference to the vote to start the inquiry or vote for impeachment? Got a link? I’m curious now

I believe her comment was just in relation to the formal inquiry vote:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/polit...ote/index.html

Sorry for the CNN link - it's the only site that didn't freak out with my ad blocker.

They currently have most of the power they need to expose all the illegal activity with the existing impeachment proceedings so I am very curious to see how this will proceed.

[Tik-Tok]

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What possible benefit does anyone get from impeachment? Seriously? It's bad for the entire country.

The same benefit as having our own PM's crimes investigated, and then charged appropriately. It sucks for the country short term, but also sets precedence long term for the leaders of our nations to stop doing illegal shit (or be smart enough not to get caught)

[Mitsu3000gt]

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What possible benefit does anyone get from impeachment? Seriously? It's bad for the entire country.

IMO it's a huge benefit to remove a legit criminal from the most powerful office in the world, and a message to future presidents.

[sabad66]

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I believe her comment was just in relation to the formal inquiry vote:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/polit...ote/index.html

Sorry for the CNN link - it's the only site that didn't freak out with my ad blocker.

They currently have most of the power they need to expose all the illegal activity with the existing impeachment proceedings so I am very curious to see how this will proceed.

ah ok, thats what i thought. One thing i can't figure out is why she won't have a House-wide vote to hold the impeachment inquiry. They should easily have the votes, and possibly even a few from republicans. It would just be a formality at this point since its obviously well into the inquiry, but at least it might stop the republican whining for a bit. Although i'm sure they'll find some other reason to whine either way. I don't even think it would make Dems look weak at this point, they could just play it off as, "OK, let's just have the vote for the impeachment inquiry even though we don't have to, just to shut you whiners up and stop interrupting our depositions".