Trump, his bullshit never stops

[pheoxs]

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Not much different than what the Democrats did in part 1 of this - they wouldn't even allow the other side in to question their witnesses in Congress, remember? Everyone seems to forget that before this went to the Senate, Congressional Democrats held everything behind closed doors mostly inside of a SCIF, and locked out the press and every Republican in Congress, doing all of their investigating and interviewing of witnesses, and everything else, in secret. What did they expect in return?

The Democrats in Congress made more of a mockery of the justice system than the Senate has.

Wtf are you talking about. Both republicans and democrats in congress got to ask questions to the witnesses. And the republicans even selected witnesses that appeared .... and they further hurt trumps case.

Not to mention the fact that the committee included a significant amount (slightly less than half) republicans ...

And locked out the press? There was an entire round where it was all televised/streamed online. Literally DAYS where you could tune in and listen to both sides asking questions to the witnesses. How fucking stupid are you?

[Gman.45]

No WTF are YOU talking about?

Again, how fast everyone forgets in the 24hour news cycle.

The Democrats locked out the Republicans in Congress, from virtually ALL of their initial hearings.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ment-testimony

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...cess-scif.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...chment/600355/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...by-republicans

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...chment-hearing

Republicans have repeatedly blasted Democrats for choosing to only allow members of the Democrat House Intelligence, Oversight and Reform and Foreign Affairs committees to attend the hearings and depositions, arguing that the information and transcripts should be made available to all members given the gravity of the consequences of impeachment, and accusing them of leaking select information to the press.

Should I go on? I clearly said part 1 of the CONGRESSIONAL part of the inquiry, you could tune in to the SENATE part, and the later parts of the Congressional inquiry, but the first Congressional part of the inquiry was held behind closed doors, easily the most critical part of the inquiry as well. Nobody could tune into SHIT for the critical initial part of the inquiry, which is what I said. The few Republicans allowed in only by nature of being on the Oversight/Reform/FA committees already, were shut down then shut out by the controlling Democrats of the committees (so we're told, again, NO press and NO Republicans were allowed in and were locked out), and due to their security clearance to BE on those committees in the first place, couldn't say a thing about what was happening - the Democrats even started putting their chairs (there were at max 6 of them at one point) out in the hallway, not letting THEM in even.

What did the Democrats think was going to happen when this got to the Republican controlled Senate after that? Not that the outcome would have been different IMO even if the Democrats had allowed public access to their Congressional investigation, but at least it would have removed the excuse.

[Buster]

Getting salty all up in here

[ExtraSlow]

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Getting salty all up in here

Probably time for me to make bets on Trump getting elected again.

[Buster]

I tink the participants in this thread are also people that have serious discussions over the WWE.

[Gman.45]

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Getting salty all up in here

Maybe I could have made it a bit more clear in my first post, but to deny that what I described even happened is completely ridiculous. Virtually every talking head on the Right in the USA claimed that the Senate would consider turnabout fair play due to it as well, there are pages of links of this.

[rage2]

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I tink the participants in this thread are also people that have serious discussions over the WWE.

Wait, is that not acceptable?

[pheoxs]

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No WTF are YOU talking about?

Again, how fast everyone forgets in the 24hour news cycle.

The Democrats locked out the Republicans in Congress, from virtually ALL of their initial hearings.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ment-testimony

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...cess-scif.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...chment/600355/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...by-republicans

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...chment-hearing




Should I go on? I clearly said part 1 of the CONGRESSIONAL part of the inquiry, you could tune in to the SENATE part, and the later parts of the Congressional inquiry, but the first Congressional part of the inquiry was held behind closed doors, easily the most critical part of the inquiry as well. Nobody could tune into SHIT for the critical initial part of the inquiry, which is what I said. The few Republicans allowed in, were shut down by the controlling Democrats of the committees (so we're told, again, NO press and NO Republicans were allowed in and were locked out), and due to their security clearance to BE on those committees in the first place, couldn't say a thing about what was happening - the Democrats even started putting their chairs (there were at max 6 of them at one point) out in the hallway, not letting THEM in even.

What did the Democrats think was going to happen when this got to the Republican controlled Senate after that? Not that the outcome would have been different IMO even if the Democrats had allowed public access to their Congressional investigation, but at least it would have removed the excuse.

You're referring to the bullshit stunt where they stormed the inquiry demanding Republicans be included?

More than 40 Republican lawmakers disrupted witness testimony on Oct. 23 by storming a secure room and chanting, "Let us in!" Many news outlets and top Democrats quickly pointed out that roughly a dozen of the protesting Republicans already had access to the depositions they were demanding to hear.

Again, even in the early preliminary stages Republicans were included in the depositions. However they kept crying and whining trying to throw mud claiming the Democrats were being secretive and hiding things.

Also the transcripts from those closed door inquiries were also released to the public prior to the public portion of the House intelligence inquiry. You can read them here. And guess what, you'll find Republicans in there asking questions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/4163983002/

[sabad66]

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No WTF are YOU talking about?

Again, how fast everyone forgets in the 24hour news cycle.

The Democrats locked out the Republicans in Congress, from virtually ALL of their initial hearings.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ment-testimony

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...cess-scif.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...chment/600355/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...by-republicans

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...chment-hearing




Should I go on? I clearly said part 1 of the CONGRESSIONAL part of the inquiry, you could tune in to the SENATE part, and the later parts of the Congressional inquiry, but the first Congressional part of the inquiry was held behind closed doors, easily the most critical part of the inquiry as well. Nobody could tune into SHIT for the critical initial part of the inquiry, which is what I said. The few Republicans allowed in only by nature of being on the Oversight/Reform/FA committees already, were shut down then shut out by the controlling Democrats of the committees (so we're told, again, NO press and NO Republicans were allowed in and were locked out), and due to their security clearance to BE on those committees in the first place, couldn't say a thing about what was happening - the Democrats even started putting their chairs (there were at max 6 of them at one point) out in the hallway, not letting THEM in even.

What did the Democrats think was going to happen when this got to the Republican controlled Senate after that? Not that the outcome would have been different IMO even if the Democrats had allowed public access to their Congressional investigation, but at least it would have removed the excuse.

Are you aware that committees have members of both parties? Yes they are chaired by the party that holds House majority, but committees do have both sides. It’s completely false to say republicans were shut out of committee hearings.

Also during the last phase where they drafted the articles in the judiciary committee, trump’s counsel was invited but they chose not to attend.

[pheoxs]

Here's a breakdown of Vindman's closed door deposition based on the transcripts that you claim the republicans were shut out of. It's also color coded so you don't even have to learn to read.

[Gman.45]

Are you aware that committees have members of both parties? Yes they are chaired by the party that holds House majority, but committees do have both sides. It’s completely false to say republicans were shut out of committee hearings.

I'm aware, and said as much. What the few (1/2 dozen compared to dozens, if not over 100 different Democrat MOC) who were on the committees and allowed in were allowed to do is another matter completely.

Only six Republican staff members are allowed in the depositions, according to a senior Republican aide, who said Democrats are afforded more. Republicans accuse Democrats of removing chairs that GOP staffers had been using in the hallway of the secured area.

Republicans say Democrats recently clamped down on the process by which committee members can review the interview transcripts. GOP staff can now only review the transcripts in a secure room with what they refer to as a “Democratic minder,” according to a senior Republican aide.

The Democrats controlled the process completely, and again, ran the entire part/phase 1 of the Congressional investigation in secret. Releasing transcripts after they were finished - isn't that the point?

My point was that the Republican controlled Senate used this as one of the excuses to act as they did in the Senate/trial. I didn't come up with that myself.

Not to mention the fact that the committee included a significant amount (slightly less than half) republicans ...

Incorrect.

But House rules allow only lawmakers and designated staff members of the committees involved in the investigation — in this case, the Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight and Reform panels — to attend sessions with witnesses.

That amounts to more than 100 House lawmakers, and includes roughly a quarter of House Republicans.

One quarter being generous (it's a liberal paper).

[ExtraSlow]

Republicans accuse Democrats of removing chairs that GOP staffers had been using in the hallway of the secured area.

Petty bullshit like this makes me smile.

[pheoxs]

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I'm aware, and said as much. What the few (1/2 dozen compared to dozens, if not over 100 different Democrat MOC) who were on the committees and allowed in were allowed to do is another matter completely.



The Democrats controlled the process completely, and again, ran the entire part/phase 1 of the Congressional investigation in secret. Releasing transcripts after they were finished - isn't that the point?

My point was that the Republican controlled Senate used this as one of the excuses to act as they did in the Senate/trial. I didn't come up with that myself.



Incorrect. One quarter being generous (it's a liberal paper).

Care to post your source? Because this breaks it down that 48 had authorization to be in the hearings. Granted washington post is left of center leaning.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...r-depositions/

Of the 197 Republicans in the House, 48 had authorization to attend the hearings, either by virtue of their positions or their membership on relevant committees. Of the 41 who signed on to the protest, led by Rep. Matt Gaetz, nearly a third could have just gone in and observed the hearing itself.

Either way that does not refute my previous picture where the Republicans, even if less in number, were given equal time to talk during the depositions.

[sabad66]

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I'm aware, and said as much. What the few (1/2 dozen compared to dozens, if not over 100 different Democrat MOC) who were on the committees and allowed in were allowed to do is another matter completely.



The Democrats controlled the process completely, and again, ran the entire part/phase 1 of the Congressional investigation in secret. Releasing transcripts after they were finished - isn't that the point?

My point was that the Republican controlled Senate used this as one of the excuses to act as they did in the Senate/trial. I didn't come up with that myself.

Committee membership is proportional to the House allocation. So if 2/3 of the House is dem and 1/3 is republican then the same proportion is used for committee membership. No party in their right mind would allow more members of the opposite side just for fun. Fact is, both sides were allowed to be there, so the claim that it was all "secret" with no republican input is 100% false no matter.

The democrats controlled the process because they run the House. the US citizens elected these people in the mid terms and flipped the house partly because democrats ran on providing more oversight on the trump admin.

it's pretty petty and childish to use the excuse of 'not enough chairs' and 'they are running it their way and not our way'...chairs can easily be brought in from other rooms, and whoever is in charge gets to decide the rules. Of course they are free to complain how they think they are unfair, but the other side would do the exact same thing if they were in power. elections have consequences and this was one of them.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Not only were the Republicans allowed into the hearings (this is well documented), they broke rules and brought in things like cell phones in an attempt to be as disruptive as possible as well as endanger national security, which is another reason we know they were there.

Additionally, you can see in the public transcripts from those hearings that Republicans were there asking questions and according to the transcripts, the amount that each party spoke was roughly 50/50.

[bjstare]

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I tink the participants in this thread are also people that have serious discussions over the WWE.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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I tink the participants in this thread are also people that have serious discussions over the WWE.

It's far more entertaining than the WWE, which I think is why so many people pay attention to it. You can't make most of this stuff up haha. Selfishly, I'll be sad when Trump is out of office and the late night shows have to go back to making up satire rather than just reporting actual events.

[Buster]

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It's far more entertaining than the WWE, which I think is why so many people pay attention to it. You can't make most of this stuff up haha. Selfishly, I'll be sad when Trump is out of office and the late night shows have to go back to making up satire rather than just reporting actual events.

If you are invested in this discussion you are being manipulated by political theater.

Who wants to be manipulated?

[revelations]

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If you are invested in this discussion you are being manipulated by political theater.

Who wants to be manipulated?

Bingo - thats the key take away. Nothing but Theatre, from both sides.

Turn off mass media.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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If you are invested in this discussion you are being manipulated by political theater.

Who wants to be manipulated?

I can only speak for myself but I'm not invested in anything - I participate for my own entertainment. I have mentioned several times here that I am interested in the proceedings for entertainment purposes. I think everyone knows the outcomes have no effect on us whatsoever, it's just fun to watch the circus and some of it I find genuinely interesting as I learn more about the facets of American politics that you don't see every year. Again, as I said before, I hope nobody here is taking any of this too seriously.