Home entertainment system build recommendations

[killramos]

To be fair I feel like the people hiring these contractors to setup a home theatre for them don’t care about things like model numbers. What you are paying for is Price Points and Pro Con lists, not to vette the details and specs.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

To be fair I feel like the people hiring these contractors to setup a home theatre for them don’t care about things like model numbers. What you are paying for is Price Points and Pro Con lists, not to vette the details and specs.

Those unimportant model numbers might mean he is getting sold something that he literally cannot even use....so I disagree.

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I messaged the guy asking about the specific model numbers for speakers and all that. Let's see if that helps. I know Polk is good but never heard of Omage speakers. But I had also never heard of Kef and Klipsch until now so there's that.

My big concerns is the difference in two receivers. Since both quotes are more or less on par, I am not sure how one uses a $1200 7.2 channel receiver and the other a under $500 5.2 channel. So presumably the 7.2 options is saving costs elsewhere? I just don't know what it is - is it bad quality speakers, sub etc. I was also leaning towards option 2 but mostly because I spoke with that individual first, but then I noticed the price difference in the two receivers that are being included.

Receivers vary widely in price and performance. You can get a very good 5.1 and a average 7.2 unit.

But as far as speakers, the Omage have a good performance to price as they are relatively unknown in AV circles whereas the KEF units are very well received. You are saving $$$ by going with Omage allowing for $$$ to be spent elsewhere.

[shakalaka]

Thanks for the input guys. Definitely a lot to get from it. While I am not a huge enthusiast, I certainly care where my $ is going which is why I made the post to begin with. I have contacted the first quote guy to give me specific model numbers of the speakers and all that.

I will check with them about the projector not being good enough and ask about other options that Mitsu mentioned which sound to be in the similar price point anyway. Once I hear back I will post. The price point for both these options is around the same of $10K (installed and all that).

[Mitsu3000gt]

I assume this is too late, but just in case you are still waiting on model numbers from your installer, I was at my preferred custom HT install shop on the weekend getting quotes for my next project. While I was there, I asked them why they don't sell Optoma, and they went into great detail about all the issues they have had with them over the years, and the subsequent lack of support from Optoma when something does go wrong. He told me about how the Optoma rep. keeps trying to get them onboard again, and he won't because they lose customers when Optoma refuses to replace defective units. They have one customer who has had his Optoma projector sent away 14 times for repair (waiting weeks + shipping money each time) and Optoma won't even replace it. With Epson (the only PJ brand they still sell due to the level of dealer support), you get a replacement (or upgrade) no questions asked - sometimes even outside warranty. If you have so much as a spec of dust on the LCD panels, they replace the entire unit at no cost to you. So on top of being the better projector from a performance perspective, you don't have to worry about anything else on the service/reliability side. Just something to think about.

[shakalaka]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I assume this is too late, but just in case you are still waiting on model numbers from your installer, I was at my preferred custom HT install shop on the weekend getting quotes for my next project. While I was there, I asked them why they don't sell Optoma, and they went into great detail about all the issues they have had with them over the years, and the subsequent lack of support from Optoma when something does go wrong. He told me about how the Optoma rep. keeps trying to get them onboard again, and he won't because they lose customers when Optoma refuses to replace defective units. They have one customer who has had his Optoma projector sent away 14 times for repair (waiting weeks + shipping money each time) and Optoma won't even replace it. With Epson (the only PJ brand they still sell due to the level of dealer support), you get a replacement (or upgrade) no questions asked - sometimes even outside warranty. If you have so much as a spec of dust on the LCD panels, they replace the entire unit at no cost to you. So on top of being the better projector from a performance perspective, you don't have to worry about anything else on the service/reliability side. Just something to think about.

Definitely worth keeping in mind, thanks for pointing it out. I am actually meeting with the guy tomorrow on site as the basement has just finished framing. I will bring up the Optoma projector issues and ask what alternatives he may be able to offer. For the speakers it is the JBL in wall speakers behind the screen which he says are on par in terms of quality with KEF and other high-end speakers but just a slightly older model and Omage in-cieling speakers I believe. I will clarify all that with him tomorrow as well. Between Omage rears (in wall) and JBL's which ones would be the better option in terms of quality etc? I am thinking of telling him to just do all Omage since the ceiling ones are going to be them anyway. If there is a better brand out there (KEF?) I can check with him on that as well. Thanks.

[Asian_defender]

KEF in ceilings if you can, Paradigm also does really good in ceilings but are pricey IMO.
Best bang for the buck is still the monoprice calibers. Awesome value for the money, installed these for my parents and was very impressed
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7605

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Definitely worth keeping in mind, thanks for pointing it out. I am actually meeting with the guy tomorrow on site as the basement has just finished framing. I will bring up the Optoma projector issues and ask what alternatives he may be able to offer. For the speakers it is the JBL in wall speakers behind the screen which he says are on par in terms of quality with KEF and other high-end speakers but just a slightly older model and Omage in-cieling speakers I believe. I will clarify all that with him tomorrow as well. Between Omage rears (in wall) and JBL's which ones would be the better option in terms of quality etc? I am thinking of telling him to just do all Omage since the ceiling ones are going to be them anyway. If there is a better brand out there (KEF?) I can check with him on that as well. Thanks.

I'd need exact model numbers to offer more meaningful input on the speakers.

If it's not too late to potentially change contractors, give BASE Electronics a call. They are the best in town IMHO and I buy all my HT gear from them. They have some very high profile customers as well. They also do free in-home consults if you just want another data point. Customer service is their priority, and they only carry products that they can get swapped out for you instantly if you ever have an issue down the road - at the end of the day that's what you want IMO.

What are they charging you for that screen? There is HUGE margin on screens and it's pretty easy to get them 40-50% off. I suspect you can save a good chunk of money there. Again, at 160" I would not be using a Optoma UHD50 as you need something that is very bright to fill that much screen real estate (especially if you ever watch HDR or 3D content), and especially if the projector isn't being mounted as close as possible to the screen. On top of all that, you pay a light penalty with acoustically transparent (perforated) screens. Also at that size, and with the older DLP chip in that specific projector, remember that it is going to over shoot by 5-6"+ (4.5% of image width) with a black (but lit) boarder, and it's going to be noticeable depending on the size of the screen frame. If you have a white wall behind that screen and the velvet screen frames aren't massive, that is going to look bad. If they aren't even telling you about these things, that is a big red flag in my opinion. Optoma also has one of the shortest warranties in the industry at 1 year.

I'd also look into getting some or all your cables from Monoproce or Primecables or similar to avoid paying the 1000% markup.

Also I'd like to add, I am not trying to be rude or anything - I just don't want to see you get screwed in a business where it's so easy to be taken advantage of.

[shakalaka]

Not sure how I missed this post above but to give an update. Now that the house is nearing completing we are that point where all this stuff will be going in a couple of weeks time.

The screen that the contractor had quoted me was just $5000 on its own. I did some research and asked around and found out screens can be custom ordered from this site in China and I ended up ordering what I needed for $1000US. So I have that sitting.

That got me thinking what if the prices of the receiver and projector he's charging me are crazy too - so I looked up and the receiver can be had for $100 cheaper online (Denon 2600H) and the projector for about $300-$400 (Optoma UHD50). Since I saved a bit on the screen I want to make sure I get decent quality other stuff like the receiver and the projector.
@Mitsu3000gt you mentioned above that the receiver is fine so I can stick to that, unless you think there's something better that's not ridiculously more expensive. In terms of the projector then what would you recommend I look at?

For speakers I was thinking of sticking with whatever he is offering as he's done the rough ins into the walls etc already (not sure if that is speaker specific or anything) but they are Omage L-C-R IW8 and JBL Soundpoint SPC11 with Polk sub PSW110. If these are good enough then I won't bother looking into these as well.

[revelations]

As far as speakers, no its just analog cable. Nothing specific. You want ones that integrate best with the environment (rather than the purest/cleanest sound possible).

Also the sub, you did not want to go low profile? Thats just your run of the mill box.

[shakalaka]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As far as speakers, no its just analog cable. Nothing specific. You want ones that integrate best with the environment (rather than the purest/cleanest sound possible).

Also the sub, you did not want to go low profile? Thats just your run of the mill box.

What's a low profile sub?

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's a low profile sub?

Something you can hide.

Im NOT saying get this one - but just to show you an example:

https://www.amazon.ca/Monoprice-1358...s%2C222&sr=8-7

[shakalaka]

^Thanks.

So I need help deciding on the projector. Based on above comments doesn't look like the Optoma they suggested is a good choice for me to light up that large of a screen. So I am looking at Epson 4010. Is that a good choice then? Will it do the job nicely? How about the Optoma UHD60? Originally I am quoted for UHD50 which people thought won't be good enough but the 4010 and UHD60 are both about a $1000 more. I am willing to make the leap if it's going to make an actual noticeable difference.

Or should I be looking at other options all together?

[revelations]

Deciding on a projector is a big deal. It requires time and research to get the best setup. Whats your throw distance going to be for eg?

I used this site year ago - not sure if its being updated. There are vast differences between projectors.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

[killramos]

When I was looking at projectors as an option a little while ago I thought Sony was the only ones who could even claim a semblance of 4K HDR compliance and at truly insane cost.

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When I was looking at projectors as an option a little while ago I thought Sony was the only ones who could even claim a semblance of 4K HDR compliance and at truly insane cost.

Yea I compared a 80" 4k TV to a 80" 4k projector and it made more sense for the client (and their setup) to go with the TV.

Something like 8-12,000$ for the Sonys at the time and 5,000$ for a TV.

Speaking of Tv's - 4k 85" for 3000$? wow

https://www.amazon.ca/Sony-XBR-X850G...4454797&sr=8-3

[shakalaka]

Oh man. I don't know the throw distance...or what that means. How can I find out? My contractor quote me a Optoma hd50 which someone above said isn't going to be bright enough to light up the 160" screen. So I figured I'd ask for a recommendation on a better projector that's 4K and will put on a good picture on the 160" screen.

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh man. I don't know the throw distance...or what that means. How can I find out? My contractor quote me a Optoma hd50 which someone above said isn't going to be bright enough to light up the 160" screen. So I figured I'd ask for a recommendation on a better projector that's 4K and will put on a good picture on the 160" screen.

If youre serious about spending money on this - the guy who did your quotes at the beginning of this thread, should have done all this for you. It is a major tech-geek undertaking to get the optimal projector. There is also display calibration required, post setup.

Throw distance calculator: https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm (for a specific model)

You dont just go and buy any projector OTS, its highly variable depending on many factors.

Also, true 4k (not just upscale/upconverted) will net a significant cost increase as mentioned above.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure how I missed this post above but to give an update. Now that the house is nearing completing we are that point where all this stuff will be going in a couple of weeks time.

The screen that the contractor had quoted me was just $5000 on its own. I did some research and asked around and found out screens can be custom ordered from this site in China and I ended up ordering what I needed for $1000US. So I have that sitting.

That got me thinking what if the prices of the receiver and projector he's charging me are crazy too - so I looked up and the receiver can be had for $100 cheaper online (Denon 2600H) and the projector for about $300-$400 (Optoma UHD50). Since I saved a bit on the screen I want to make sure I get decent quality other stuff like the receiver and the projector.
@Mitsu3000gt you mentioned above that the receiver is fine so I can stick to that, unless you think there's something better that's not ridiculously more expensive. In terms of the projector then what would you recommend I look at?

For speakers I was thinking of sticking with whatever he is offering as he's done the rough ins into the walls etc already (not sure if that is speaker specific or anything) but they are Omage L-C-R IW8 and JBL Soundpoint SPC11 with Polk sub PSW110. If these are good enough then I won't bother looking into these as well.

If you go back and re-read my replies, most of your questions have been answered in detail already. I suggested to you months ago to get rid of that installer as they are doing some shady stuff and this is an industry where it is EXTREMELY easy to rip people off. Some time has passed though so I will reiterate and copy/paste relevant bits from before for clarity:

- First and foremost, if it were me I would get rid of that installer. They are picking aging equipment, trying to sell you grossly overpriced items ($5K for a screen? lol), and aren't even addressing critical issues. For example, they haven't even checked if you're sensitive to the rainbow effect before selling you a DLP projector that you literally might not even be able to watch. Second, they are selling you a projector that is not a good choice for a 160" perforated screen. Call up BASE Electronics and they will take care of you with no BS. I have no affiliation with them, they have just taken such good care of me over the years and post-purchase service is second to none.

I'll try go through each item and offer an explanation:

Projector

That projector is very average, over a year old now, and it would be one of my last choices to light up a 160" screen, especially if you aren't in a velvet-lined bat cave. You lose even more light using an acoustically transparent screen to boot (approx. 10%). Calibrated, the UHD50 puts out less than half it's advertised lumens in most picture modes, and that is with no zoom. Input lag is also high which is a concern as you said you want to game on it, and HDR performance is sub-par with its low dynamic range and low brightness. For 4KHDR you're also only going to see about 80% of the P3 color gamut (4K HDR BluRays can be viewed in P3). Look at something like the Epson 4010/4050 in that price range or a refurbished Epson 5040UB ($1497 if still available) which is an absolutely phenomenal deal and will blow the Optoma out of the water.

The other reason you don't want an Optoma, is because like any TV or display, your projector is going to be by far the least reliable piece of equipment in your HT. Optima has a terrible warranty and even worse support. If anything goes wrong, expect to be out of pocket and waiting weeks for a repair. With Epson, if you get so much as a speck of dust on the LCD panels, they send you a brand new projector in a day or two, no questions asked. They are even known to replace projectors off warranty. People underestimate how valuable this side of the equation is, especially with projectors. Optoma is not a company you want deal with post-purchase, and the UHD50 is not a good choice for reasons above.

Did your installer check if you are sensitive to the rainbow effect before they spec'd you a DLP projector? Did they tell you that projector uses the old 0.47" DLP chip which means you will have a permanent dark grey boarder being lit up by the projector around your entire viewing area that you will need to hide with a very thick screen boarder? (more than 5"). Do not buy a screen until you know what projector you're getting.

What is the exact distance the projector will be from the screen? That is really important. This is the distance between the lens and the screen. The reason this is important for a number of reasons - first, projectors, especially DLPs, have fairly limited placement flexibility relative to the screen. There is a minimum and maximum image size it can project at any given placement distance (closer = brighter, further = dimmer). I hope your installer has at least checked this because it doesn't seem like they have looked into anything else. Just as important, it will determine how bright the image is and how uniform the image is. This is a HUGE part of selecting the correct projector for the environment as well as the screen.

My advice to you, call up BASE Electronics (I have bought all my HT gear from them for the last 10+ years) and get yourself an Epson 4050. They will give you cost +10%, and if anything goes wrong, they have an phenomenal relationship with Epson, and you get a brand new projector with zero BS. On top of that, it's also a way better projector than the Optoma - you can spend $10K+ and you still might not find all the features the Epson gives you. Bang for the buck is off the charts, and you don't have to take my word for it, you can read all the professional reviews you like. It's far brighter than the Optoma (for your 160" perforated screen and HDR performance), can display 100% of the P3 color gamut, has very low lag (for your gaming), it has an all-glass lens made by Fujinon in Japan (many $10K projectors aren't even using all glass lenses), it has motorized focus and lens shift (again, virtually unheard of even at twice the price), and although it's a pixel shiftier ("Faux-K), it will look better than any entry level native $4K projector that will run you around $10K (more on that later). The 4050 is identical to a 4010, but it's sold to the custom install market. It's also binned (Epson chooses the highest perfoming individual units and uses them for the 4050/6050 models), comes with a second lamp ($500 value or so), comes with a high-end mount, cable cover, black color, and triple the warranty (super important, especially with Epson's liberal replacement policy). I'm guessing you can get a 4050 around $2500, maybe even less - get a quote from BASE. They won't even sell you an Optoma because they are such a nightmare to deal with, just FYI.

One quick note - you can completely ignore people who comment with things like "I once saw a 4K Projector and my TV looks better" or "HDR looks better on my TV", etc. HDR performance has improved dramatically in the projector world in the last 1-2 years. Projectors are also not plug & play - they have dozens of different HDR settings, some of which you will want to change depending on the individual movie you're watching for best performance. They also usually benefit from professional calibration. Without knowing the exact settings, how many hours on the bulb, the screen type, the room type, etc. etc. you can just ignore anyone's comments regarding "X looks better than Y" or "I wasn't impressed with X". Epson uses huge brightness, a dynamic iris, many different HDR settings, and best in class tone mapping to deal with HDR content and it's really excellent, only slightly behind the best TV's and you will forget all about that because your screen is 3X the size of most people's TV's.

Lastly, don't get too caught up in the 4K stuff. More important than resolution is contrast ratio, brightness, and lens quality. A good 1080P projector will look better to almost everyone than a crappy 4K projector because the image will be so much punchier and probably even sharper despite the resolution difference. Contrast contributes to perceived sharpness. Entry level native 4K projectors are not good - you pay $10K just for the native 4K chip, and all other corners are cut which ends up looking worse than projectors 1/3 the price. The Epson's are "Faux-K" and they take the native 4K input signal and put double the resolution of 1080P on the screen. It is visually indistinguishable from native 4K, and you would be up into roughly the $20-50K range to see minor improvements. It looks better than every entry level native 4K (or true 4K pixel shifter) anywhere near your price range. What you're also getting is that excellent lens which makes a big difference, and great HDR performance - if you want those things on a native 4K projector along with a powered lens, you will need to spend as much as a car. The point of diminishing return in the projector world is incredibly low, thankfully.

Screen

First of all, do not buy a screen until you are 100% sure what projector you're getting and what you room is going to be like. This cannot be overstated. Once you know that, and can properly select a screen (your installer should be doing all of this for you but they aren't), call up BASE Electronics and get a quote on the appropriate Grandview screen. They are excellent, made in Canada, and since markup on screens is huge, you will also save 40-50% off retail. If you don't want to do that, go on Amazon and get yourself a Silver Ticket screen (not sure if they do perforated though, I would have to check).

There are many different types of screen materials - white, grey, perforated, etc. On top of that they have a gain value, this is basically how much light they reflect. Higher gain = higher brightness at the cost of slightly worse blacks. Too much gain and you can get hotspots if it's not a well made screen. Too little gain and your image will be too dark. 1.0 gain on a plain white screen is standard, and you adjust screen material and gain from there depending on what projector you're getting and the room it's going in. Many people don't even buy a screen until AFTER their HT is complete. You want to do this last. Do not buy a screen without knowing every last detail of your HT. It shouldn't cost you more than about $1000 CAD give or take - maybe a bit more because 160" is on the bigger side.

Another reason why you do not want a screen until you know what projector you're getting is because of what I mentioned earlier about that Optoma and it's old 0.47" DLP chip - at 160", it is going to project a significant dark grey boarder beyond your image that will be distracting if you do not have a ~5" thick black velvet boarder on the screen. You can remedy this by not buying that Optoma (or any projector using that same chip), or buying a different screen. Newer DLP chips do not have that issue either.

Receiver

This is less important, as virtually all Sub-$1000 receivers are roughly the same aside from room correction. Denon and Marantz are the same company, Onkyo/Integra are the same company, etc. Denon also makes receivers for several other manufactures. We talked about the Denon 2600H, but you can buy a 3600H for $799 this week for Black Friday, so unless the 2600H is considerably cheaper than that, you are paying too much. Room correction is the single most important thing given that most other receiver features in that price range will be roughly the same. The 3600H gets the best Audyssey's best MultEQ XT32, where the 2600H gets a lesser version. This is a reason to get the 3600H, also it's going to be dirt cheap. Not going to be the end of the world either way but there is room for optimization here. If you want to put more money here, I would suggest a Pioneer Elite LX 504 or LX 704. They use D-class amps, some of the best room correction, and a feature list as future proof as it gets. You'd be looking at $1000-1500 or so here after appropriate discounts.

Cables

Quick note here - if you paying any more than Amazon/Monoprice/Primecables pricing on speaker wire, subwoofer cables, HDMI cables, etc. you are getting ripped off, and probably to the tune of several hundred or even a thousand percent markup. I'd also suggest getting an Opti-HDMI cable so you don't have to run a garden-hose-thick HDMI cable up the ceiling to your projector. This should not run you more than $150 or so and they are very reliable. Do note Opti-HDMI cables are directional, since your installer will probably have no idea. Some of them also require auxiliary power to "boost" the signal, and the Epson projectors have the correct input for that as well.

For quick reference, 16ga speaker wire should cost you around $15 per 100ft. If you are bi-wiring or want a thicker gauge, it's a bit more but still super cheap. Just make sure if it's going in the wall or whatever that it's properly rated as such.

A good Opti-HDMI cable will cost around $75-150 depending on length.

Regular HDMI cables for your components should cost $10 or less each, or you are overpaying. Keep in mind that HDMI is a digital signal, it either gets there or it doesn't, cable quality does not matter as long as it has the bandwidth to pass the signal.

Everything in the entire chain from source to projector needs to be HDMI 2.0 (or similar bandwidth) and HDCP2.2 compatible for you to watch 4K HDR content. Receiver, cables, projector, etc. You should be OK here from what I see so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if those installers mess that up.

This is another area your installer is probably taking you to the cleaners price-wise - check it very carefully.


Speakers/Sub

I am not familiar with Omage in-walls, so I will reserve comment on those. I will say that speakers have huge margin on them, so if you are paying any more than cost + 10%, you are paying too much. Room correction and room treatments make a bigger difference than buying better speakers, so as long as the speakers are decent and you aren't an audiophile, I suspect you will like them after a proper calibration of your HT.

The in-ceiling speakers should be fine, you can get away with almost anything there because during a movie they will be doing like 1% of the work. On that same note, your center channel and subwoofer do 80-90% of the work in a typical movie, and it's extremely important you do not skimp out there. I would put in at least 4 speakers in the ceiling for Atmos, in addition to your rears. Up to you though. If you ever think you will play Auro3D content, I would also put in a "voice of god" speaker if you have the benefit of doing it before the HT room is complete when it will cost you next to nothing to add - even if you never use it, you won't be out more than a few hundred dollars.

I don't know how big your room is going to be or what the acoustics are like, but a Polk PSW110 is a very weak subwoofer not to mention ten years old. It's costs about $250. Honestly those installers are stressing me out and I'm not even paying for it haha. It's a 10" sub with only 100W RMS and can't even play below 30Hz. For movies especially, you want your sub to play as low as possible while also being powerful enough to give you a proper visceral experience. This is not a good HT sub, and if your room is big enough for a 160" screen, I am going to guess it isn't small. Most people don't buy nearly enough sub for a proper movie experience, and this is a very weak sub for what I imagine to be your setup. Generally speaking, better subs play louder and lower without sounding bad. If you have extra money, put it here. Get yourself something in the 12-15" range with some decent power behind it. I would suggest a Paradigm Defiance X12 or X15 (12" and 15" respectively). Not only will they have tons of power (900W RMS/1800W Peak) but they will play down to a pretty incredible 14Hz (X15) and come with the best room calibration in the industry (most subs come with no room correction at all) - the importance of which cannot be overstated, especially for the subwoofer. Also, contrary to popular belief, adding a second sub does not double the power, it only adds about 3dB, but it will even out frequency response in the room. A single 15" sub calibrated properly will usually be better than two 12" subs, for example. At cost + 10% I suspect these will run you around $1200-1400 depending on the size - if you are saving $4K on the screen, put a bit of that extra money here and you will be glad you did.


Summary

I know that's a lot and I apologize for the giant wall of text, there is just so much to consider and your installer sounds useless. I wouldn't let those people near my HT with what I've read so far - where to start - a $5K screen, an aging projector they seem to know nothing about and don't even know if it will work for you (and the members of your family) personally, a ~$200 SUB, etc. etc. They are selling you entry-level everything and then a crazy overpriced screen, probably because there is $4.5K of markup in that $5K screen. In summary, put your extra money saved from the screen into an Epson 4010/4050 (or 6050UB if you're feeling rich - $5500) and get a way better sub. That is where you are going to see by far the most significant differences compared to the current things you have spec'd and you will not be disappointed. On top of that if you have any issues with your projector, they will be resolved ASAP with a brand new unit for 3+ years and an unlimited number of times within those 3 years.

[shakalaka]

^Well, wow. I can't thank you enough for taking the time and effort to provide me with all that information. I know SO much more about the topic than I did before I read everything and it finally all makes sense in many ways. Which it didn't really about this topic.

Projector and Screen - So up until your latest post, I was thinking of going for the Epson 4010 based on your recommendation earlier. I see that you mention 4050 to be a slightly better option. I tried some online research and none of the big Canadian retailers have the 4050 for sale. They have the 4010 around the $2600-$2700 mark. But I will call Base Electronics tomorrow and ask them about the cost of the 4050 and if it is actually around the $2500 range as you mentioned, I will just pick it up from them. Will have to do a trip to Calgary to grab it, which is fine as I am there often enough.

But if the 4050 is significantly more expensive than the 4010 then I will just go for the 4010.

Now the difficulty though lies with the fact that I've already bought the screen! I know it goes completely against what you were saying but since that part wasn't mentioned before, I did some research and sourced my own screen. As mentioned I was quoted $4.5K on the screen alone, I ended up getting mine imported from China for $1KUSD. So a significant price difference. A friend of mine going through the similar process had come across this site (xyscreens) and you basically tell them what you're looking for and they custom send you an disassembled screen. I told them I wanted a 160" perforated screen (for speakers in the back) 4K/HD with a black curtain for the backing (even though I having that wall painted Black anyway) with a small border (I believe it maybe 3-4" inches) in black velvet finish. I paid and the screen from China via Fedex less than a week later.

So now that the screen part is done, I figured I can try and choose the best possible projector under the circumstances since the Optoma is completely not recommended. From Optoma price the 4010 is about a grand more expensive but money saved from screen side can go there I suppose.

Installer - It does seem like I don't quite have the best kind out there but the difficulty is that because they've done some work already including rough-ins for the media, it would be hard to try and get rid of them at this stage. That being said, because I wasn't completely satisfied with them is why I made this thread and I am glad I did.

Speakers and sub - It's a 7.2 system so there are three behind the screen and 4 in ceiling speakers with 2 subwoofers. Speakers he is including are some JBL's now actually as he indicated to me he had them left over from last year and that since he won't be using them elsewhere he can give a better deal for them. Apparently they are last years best version from JBL (I forget the model) and that I will have no issues with them.

For subs I will do some more research. The Paradigm suggested do seem quite nice but they are pretty pricey at $1600'ish for the X12 versions. There are V8 and V5 versions that are much cheaper but the X series is up there. While I am sure that I wouldn't want some cheap-ass 10 year old version of a subwoofer, I am not quite sure if spending $3K plus for two quite makes sense either. So I will try and do some more research on this part now.

Cables - I wasn't quoted anything individually for any of the cables. Their is an install charge of $900 or $1000 - and I imagine everything including the cables is a part of that as there is independent itemization of these things.

Receiver - I tried looking up the 3600H version and the cheapest I can see is around the $1500 mark online. I'd appreciate a link to the Black Friday deal of $799 cause I can just buy that right now. The 2600 I was quoted on is $100 cheaper right now on sale then my original quote. Doesn't make a big difference so if going this route I can just let them supply it.