Solar Power generation in Alberta - Truly competitive now, or soon?

[vengie]

Solar farms are a solid waste of space... Solar needs to be adapted to every single roof, which is already useless dead space.

Problem is it's unecomic as hell with the monopoly enmax has on power distribution

[ZenOps]

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Is that solar farm still a go?

Stumbled on this article showing how all the California solar farms have gone tits up. No way we have more of a fighting chance.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ut-disappeared

Heat is not really valuable in California. If you want to convert to stored energy, water is actually better. Having a bonfire in the burning pits of hell isn't really all that valuable. If they used that heat to melt silicon solar panels though - that would be an idea.

Its sort of like a modern moon rocket engine, creates a ridonkulous amount of heat, and surprisingly little thrust for the Billions of dollars worth of carbon energy expended. One guy gets to go to moon, everyone else pays $5 more for gasoline. Its not even comparable really, the cost to put a 200 pound object 250 miles into the air is three or four magnitudes of order more consumption than using a combustion engine to move along the ground.

Saturn V rocket burns 20 tons of fuel per second - Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Good for show, but technically - the car didn't move an inch. Just like the USA lots of flash and bang, but nothing really gets done.

That being said: Texas and California don't have the water to spare either, which may ultimately be their downfall. What good is oil, when you have to drink poopwater.

[Tik-Tok]

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Is that solar farm still a go?

Stumbled on this article showing how all the California solar farms have gone tits up. No way we have more of a fighting chance.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ut-disappeared

Alberta's solar farms are PV, the Cali farms that are tits up are CSP. Apples to oranges.

[ZenOps]

On a different note: Its already shaping up to be a crazy dry year in the west side of the USA.

https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

[ExtraSlow]

I have to assume that high petroleum prices are a real boon to planned solar projects. Has there been evidence that major projects have been accelerated or smaller-scale adoption increased?

Long-term I am a huge fan of small-scale solar, ideally with a bit of local storage, to help smooth out peaky electricity usage.

[e31]

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Its sort of like a modern moon rocket engine, creates a ridonkulous amount of heat, and surprisingly little thrust for the Billions of dollars worth of carbon energy expended.

Modern moon rocket eh? NASA's upcoming SLS utilize the same RS-25 engines used in the Space Shuttle. The very same engines that have operated since 1981 on Liquid Hydrogen and Liquid Oxygen. Very Carbon intensive, Much pollution? Go swallow some nickels somewhere else. Those MF' engines are GREEN FRIENDLY

[ZenOps]

LG USA has ceased production of solar panels. Probably to concentrate on making bullets (seriously)

If the other companies do have a Quantum Dot 8% efficiency gain, there is literally no hope for the competition. Don't know who actually owns the patent, but I can imagine its not the USA. Its not known yet, but QD will be the biggest efficiency gain since the inception of the solar panel in around 1975.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/04/...rooftop-solar/

There was a time not all that long ago that LG USA was tops. Its over.

[davidI]

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Solar farms are a solid waste of space... Solar needs to be adapted to every single roof, which is already useless dead space.

Problem is it's unecomic as hell with the monopoly enmax has on power distribution

I haven't really followed this in Alberta but you still can't sell power back into the grid with EnMax can you?

In Spain my friends with solar usually break-even over the month (i.e. zero cost) based on their supply/demand into and out of the grid, though they still need to pay the exorbitant fixed monthly fees.

[suntan]

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Solar farms are a solid waste of space... Solar needs to be adapted to every single roof, which is already useless dead space.

Problem is it's unecomic as hell with the monopoly enmax has on power distribution

East and north facing roof areas are useless.

The pitch of roofs also drastically reduces the efficiency of solar.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I haven't really followed this in Alberta but you still can't sell power back into the grid with EnMax can you?

In Spain my friends with solar usually break-even over the month (i.e. zero cost) based on their supply/demand into and out of the grid, though they still need to pay the exorbitant fixed monthly fees.

I think you must be able to, now. I talked to a guy who sells residential installations and he said typical payback is only 5-6 years and at normal consumption rates, there's no way you could pay back let's say $30k in anywhere near that without selling back into the grid.

*But I don't know, for sure...

[killramos]

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I think you must be able to, now. I talked to a guy who sells residential installations and he said typical payback is only 5-6 years and at normal consumption rates, there's no way you could pay back let's say $30k in anywhere near that without selling back into the grid.

*But I don't know, for sure...

He lives in the land of European energy prices

[JustinL]

Yes. Since 2009 the retailer is required to buy the electricity back at the same price that they are selling it for... but you don't get to charge back the transmission fees etc. that they get to charge you.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Yes. Since 2009 the retailer is required to buy the electricity back at the same price that they are selling it for... but you don't get to charge back the transmission fees etc. that they get to charge you.

Ah, good to know.
LoL because the energy cost is maybe 40% of your actual invoice, but better than zero.

[Xtrema]

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I haven't really followed this in Alberta but you still can't sell power back into the grid with EnMax can you?

In Spain my friends with solar usually break-even over the month (i.e. zero cost) based on their supply/demand into and out of the grid, though they still need to pay the exorbitant fixed monthly fees.

40% of my bill is actually energy.

I am sure photovoltaic potential is same in Spain as Cali.

Calgary kinda sucks using current gen panels. Even if electricity at .10/kwh, ROI is still 26 years on my house.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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40% of my bill is actually energy.

I am sure photovoltaic potential is same in Spain as Cali.

Calgary kinda sucks using current gen panels. Even if electricity at .10/kwh, ROI is still 26 years on my house.

That sounds like you're only assuming a zero dollar invoice. You don't know payback unless you know how many GJ you could push back into the grid and sell.

[Xtrema]

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That sounds like you're only assuming a zero dollar invoice. You don't know payback unless you know how many GJ you could push back into the grid and sell.

According to CoC's calculator, 8 panels on south side can only generate 3000kwh/year. So I assume a $300 saving per year on a $8K investment.

Of course, if electricity ever goes to 0.20, ROI goes 1/2 to 13 years.

[killramos]

What a bargoon

[suntan]

ROI is actually worse because panel performance lessen as they age.

[mr2mike]

Thanks for the calcs. Easy enough for me to eyeball and decide nope.

[bjstare]

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He lives in the land of European energy prices

Ya that 5-6yr payback is definitely not for our amount of sunlight and energy prices.

IIRC that's closer to the payback period for my parents solar on their house in hawaii, where it's ~$0.35/kwh.

edit: they have 8 panels and the payback was 7 years, and they are able to sell back to the grid (well, generate credit that they draw from when they are a net consumer). 5-6 years isn't even remotely plausible here, with our sunshine and elec costs, unless we have an insane amount of grants/rebates.