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Thread: "Living wage" $22 in San Fran and $24 in New York.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Start a poll about whether butter is a condiment or not.

    #FullKert
    One doesn’t need a poll to know that vaccines are a public health benefit or that the Earth isn’t flat, and similarly you don’t need a poll to know that butter is a condiment (and when cooking up as much starch as Mitsu suggested, a minor one it is not). I wouldn’t give anti-vaxxers a voice with a poll, nor will I give a voice to people who don’t know what a condiment is.
    Last edited by kertejud2; 09-04-2019 at 05:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kertejud2 View Post
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    One doesn’t need a poll to know that vaccines are a public health benefit or that the Earth isn’t flat, and similarly you don’t need a poll to know that butter is a condiment (and when cooking up as much starch as Mitsu suggested, a minor one it is not). I wouldn’t give anti-backers a voice with a poll, nor will I give a voice to people who don’t know what a condiment is.
    It's far more complicated than that.

    Butter is, essentially, a quantum foodstuff. Much like light can display wave-like and particle-like behaviours, butter can behave both like a condiment and not a condiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    It's far more complicated than that.

    Butter is, essentially, a quantum foodstuff. Much like light can display wave-like and particle-like behaviours, butter can behave both like a condiment and not a condiment.
    Feel free to eat as many sticks of butter as you can stomach, but that probability density isn't going to be shifting away from condiment anytime soon.

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    Fresh fruit definitely went full retard in Calgary around mid-90s. Its a far cry from 23 cents per pound for oranges and apples.

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/485422828/

    On a side note, Betty Crocker cake mix went for about 50 cents even back in the 1960's. Its literally the one thing that has only doubled in price.
    Greta the destroyer.

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    So, after I posted that giant list of food you could get for $100 things kind of went silent haha. I don't understand why people are saying you can barely eat a pack of noodles 3 times a day for $100/mo. Why would anyone do that? I stand by my comment that you can eat reasonably well for $100/mo without eating junk food. Sure you might have a little less variety than if you spent $500/mo but it's entirely reasonable IMO. If you were willing to bargain hunt, use coupons, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better than the list I put together in 2 minutes as well.

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    But your list is also considering that
    -They are buying in bulk, when in reality they are probably pinching a $5 bill at the till pinching for next round of groceries. Pretty tough to choose between the 2 whole chicken breasts, 2 cartons of eggs, a 4L of milk, or one bag of potatoes. People who are working these low income jobs typically don't have the mindset to save the money for a grocery haul.
    -They have the ability to move pounds and pounds of canned and packaged foods when they are relying on transit
    -They have the time to cook this food, when they are spending 1hr travelling each way to their part time job, and then another 1hr to travel to the next part time job. Let's be honest that nobody is hiring min wage workers for 40h/week
    -Their 3 bedroom shared basement has more than a mini-fridge and microwave to store/cook this stuff

    I'm not arguing it's impossible, I'm just saying that it's a lot tougher than superstore click-and-collect
    Last edited by jwslam; 09-05-2019 at 09:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwslam View Post
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    But your list is also considering that
    -They are buying in bulk, when in reality they are probably pinching a $5 bill at the till pinching for next round of groceries. Pretty tough to choose between the 2 whole chicken breasts, 2 cartons of eggs, a 4L of milk, or one bag of potatoes. People who are working these low income jobs typically don't have the mindset to save the money for a grocery haul.
    -They have the ability to move pounds and pounds of canned and packaged foods when they are relying on transit
    -They have the time to cook this food, when they are spending 1hr travelling each way to their part time job, and then another 1hr to travel to the next part time job. Let's be honest that nobody is hiring min wage workers for 40h/week
    -Their 3 bedroom shared basement has more than a mini-fridge and microwave to store/cook this stuff

    I'm not arguing it's impossible, I'm just saying that it's a lot tougher than superstore click-and-collect
    Kind of what I'm thinking as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwslam View Post
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    But your list is also considering that
    -They are buying in bulk, when in reality they are probably pinching a $5 bill at the till pinching for next round of groceries. Pretty tough to choose between the 2 whole chicken breasts, 2 cartons of eggs, a 4L of milk, or one bag of potatoes. People who are working these low income jobs typically don't have the mindset to save the money for a grocery haul.
    -They have the ability to move pounds and pounds of canned and packaged foods when they are relying on transit
    -They have the time to cook this food, when they are spending 1hr travelling each way to their part time job, and then another 1hr to travel to the next part time job. Let's be honest that nobody is hiring min wage workers for 40h/week
    -Their 3 bedroom shared basement has more than a mini-fridge and microwave to store/cook this stuff

    I'm not arguing it's impossible, I'm just saying that it's a lot tougher than superstore click-and-collect
    Well this discussion all stemmed from a ~$2100/mo take home pay, after which you would easily have that $100 ready to go. I originally threw out $100/mo groceries and $800/mo rent which sparked the debate.

    It's a lot of food in one haul, but you wouldn't have to buy it all at once. You could easily buy one week's worth at a time, and that would be no problem to carry on transit. That would also help solve the storage problem, however I don't think it's that hard to find a place with a fridge even if it's a basement suite. Your suggestion also assumes this individual has no friends, siblings, parents, or grandparents with a car which is possible but unlikely. Either way, there are reasonable ways around the transportation of the food and people barely scraping by are forced to get creative.

    I don't really think time is that big of an issue, it really doesn't take that long to cook, and if you are THAT pressed for time you can cook once a week and freeze everything. You can leave a slow cooker going while you're at work as well.

    Really the only points I am trying to make are that 1) It's very reasonable to live on $100/mo worth of food and eat pretty well. I've also done this myself (unintentionally), so I know for a fact it's possible. 2) These people claiming you can only eat instant noodles every day or were starving on $100/mo either are making stuff up, grossly exaggerating, or preferred starving over going to a grocery store.

    There are lots of places for $800/mo or less with full fridge/kitchen - this is literally the first thing I clicked on: https://www.rentfaster.ca/ab/calgary...smoking/316414 Food storage would not be an issue with my proposed scenario.

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    I’m very tempted to try a $104/month eating challenge. Might have to go to superstore on the weekend and price out everything that Mitsu posted.

    After camping season is over though haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraserB View Post
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    I’m very tempted to try a $104/month eating challenge. Might have to go to superstore on the weekend and price out everything that Mitsu posted.

    After camping season is over though haha.
    I honestly don't think it would be that hard considering that I put almost zero effort into making that, did not always pick the cheapest things, and did not account for coupons. You could optimize that way more depending on how much effort you wanted to put into it. Also, most of us also have a Costco membership, which would make it even cheaper for some things haha.

    I used the online Superstore shopping thing to make that list, so it was already priced out accurately, as of yesterday anyway. And there is no GST on groceries. Plus you get PC points so future shopping might be a bit cheaper haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    So, after I posted that giant list of food you could get for $100 things kind of went silent haha. I don't understand why people are saying you can barely eat a pack of noodles 3 times a day for $100/mo. Why would anyone do that? I stand by my comment that you can eat reasonably well for $100/mo without eating junk food. Sure you might have a little less variety than if you spent $500/mo but it's entirely reasonable IMO. If you were willing to bargain hunt, use coupons, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better than the list I put together in 2 minutes as well.
    I occasionally get decent insight out of your posts. You strike me as being detailed but I find your views to be overly conscientious sometimes.

    I can appreciate the math behind your $100 list but qualitatively life isn't as simple as deals lining up to be had in grocery stores, or taking a robotic rice-and-beans approach to life. That said, alot of this stemmed from basic income assumptions and you did leave room for additional food costs. I just don't agree with starting at $100 to tee off the conversation since arguing for the outliers for a basic need like food doesn't do much to highlight challenges like socioeconomic obstacles, marketing, and accessibility of resources.

    Having seen similar threads in the past about monthly food consumption, I can say it's pretty hard to find common ground since we come from different walks of life and have different experiences.

    I like Fraser's idea that we should have a $100 monthly challenge haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7boi View Post
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    I occasionally get decent insight out of your posts. You strike me as being detailed but I find your views to be overly conscientious sometimes.

    I can appreciate the math behind your $100 list but qualitatively life isn't as simple as deals lining up to be had in grocery stores, or taking a robotic rice-and-beans approach to life. That said, alot of this stemmed from basic income assumptions and you did leave room for additional food costs. I just don't agree with starting at $100 to tee off the conversation since arguing for the outliers for a basic need like food doesn't do much to highlight challenges like socioeconomic obstacles, marketing, and accessibility of resources.

    Having seen similar threads in the past about monthly food consumption, I can say it's pretty hard to find common ground since we come from different walks of life and have different experiences.

    I like Fraser's idea that we should have a $100 monthly challenge haha.
    Well I said at the very start that you could simply up the $100 if you needed to for groceries as I just picked that number based on what I've done in the past. If you needed $150 or $200 it really wouldn't be that big of a deal. After that it became more of a challenge to eat for $100/mo haha - so I decided to make a list.

    I'm not sure if you read the list, but it was a lot more varied than rice and beans 3 times a day - it was surprisingly decent given the extremely low cost of everything, and I picked healthier options where possible (whole wheat, etc.) I also had a $30 pack of chicken in there and if you didn't need/want that, you could get a ton of other stuff like more veggies or beef or even an entire turkey. I also have acknowledged it is nowhere near optimized, I made that in 2 minutes as a quick example of how there is no way you would be forced to eat instant noodles 3 times a day with a $100 budget.

    I have never denied that other factors might be involved such as time, special diet considerations, appetite, activity level, etc. but just generally speaking I think it's BS that some people are claiming you can't eat anything other than Mr. Noodles for $100/mo, which was the other side of the debate. Only now are people trying to poke holes in it with time, transportation, storage, etc. now that they see how much food you can get for $100 - that was never even brought up before. If you literally cannot find the time in a week to cook even once, then it really wouldn't matter if you have $100 or $500 to spend on food, you still aren't eating or at least not well (fast food isn't healthy either). I don't think that is realistic though - it takes 10 minutes to chuck a bunch of stuff in a slow cooker and you have healthy lunch or dinner for a week, just as one example. You could also microwave a huge lasagna, which could have been something else added to the shopping list.

    Really it was just a fun exercise for a friendly debate. I even surprised myself a little bit with how much you could buy for $100 haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Also, most of us also have a Costco membership, which would make it even cheaper for some things haha.
    I don't think people on that tight of a budget are going to splurge on a $60/yr costco membership. I guess they could try and find someone to tag along with but again that's adding more assumptions

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    I don't think people on that tight of a budget are going to splurge on a $60/yr costco membership. I guess they could try and find someone to tag along with but again that's adding more assumptions
    It was a joke (hence the laugh), but as you say it's not unreasonable that these people would know someone with a Costco membership to tag along once in a while. It's an assumption but a pretty reasonable one - it's extremely unlikely this hypothetical person would not know a single person with a Costco membership. At any rate, Superstore is pretty cheap for most things - Costco wouldn't help with that much, maybe eggs and oats or something. The rest you are still probably better off at Superstore where you aren't forced to buy a 6 month supply of everything

    Anyway, the debate is whether this is reasonably possible, not to see if you can find an obscure scenario where it technically might not work out, or to find something that you can blanket apply to every scenario. All of the above is far more likely to be possible than not.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 09-05-2019 at 11:07 AM.

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    This is a lot of pedantic bitching over an arbitrary amount provided in an example.

    If the minimum wage monthly income is $2,100, there are lots of ways to skin that cat. Looking at it as a young(er) individual, it doesn't strike me as an unreasonable amount to live on... The budget could shuffle $100 here, $70 there and it still shakes out the same way... Livable.

    You guys arguing about $100 food budget for someone on minimum wage are missing the forrest for the trees.

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    I linked a livable wage/monthly expenses awhile ago...can't seem to find it now.

    But really if you're on minimum wage and living on your own, there are resources to help you. The Food Bank immediately comes to mind. Low Income transit passes, subsidized housing, Alberta Works as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    So, after I posted that giant list of food you could get for $100 things kind of went silent haha. I don't understand why people are saying you can barely eat a pack of noodles 3 times a day for $100/mo. Why would anyone do that? I stand by my comment that you can eat reasonably well for $100/mo without eating junk food. Sure you might have a little less variety than if you spent $500/mo but it's entirely reasonable IMO. If you were willing to bargain hunt, use coupons, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better than the list I put together in 2 minutes as well.
    Wasnt really worth picking apart it piece by piece. 2 kg of spaghetti, yet one 500 ml jar of sauce. 2 kg of pancakes, no syrup, no salt, no spices, no hot sauce, no oils, etc etc. No way i could convince my wife to do it, but i'd challenge you to actually do a month where you track every dollar (and you don't get t to use 'the things that you have in your fridge [those didnt magically appear before hand])

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    Minimum wage (or living wage) has a huge impact on business and peoples incentive to learn new skills and move up in the chain.

    4svnhpgu1y431.jpg

    In regards to the $100 a month grocery bill. Its not impossible, but the $100 is a tad hard. Ive done something similar when when saving for my place but it was in the $200 range.
    I ate more on how how I grew up. A factor that I'd like to throw in is ethnicity or ethic foods to be more specific.

    If you buy your main ingredients and key staples that you can keep in your cupboard. For example, spices, onions, garlic, ginger, green chilies, dried lentils or beans, flour to make chappaties or rice (you buy these in bulk and can last a while). From that you can make almost any east Indian dish that only takes 30-40 minutes to make. Then during the week you only need to buy the main vegetable you going to cook with(i.e cauliflower, squash, ladyfingers, bitter lemon etc) which does not cost much at all.
    The main cost will be if you cook with poultry or meat. You have a highly nutritious meal that can last three days if not more. Its not a case of eating beans and rice. Your getting some pretty tasty food.
    The other staple items are milk, bread and eggs for lunch.
    My point being, other ethnic groups have got this figured out pretty good.

    As for the discussion regarding butter. Its not just a food item... it has other uses... you people not ever watched 'Last Tango in Paris'..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    You shouldn't be having kids in the first place IMO if you don't have a contingency plan for a divorce scenario and can't even afford to take care of them. There's also lots of assistance programs for that sort of thing, at least in Calgary so I assume elsewhere too - most of the time people don't even bother looking and prefer to carry on feeling sorry for themselves.
    simply the dumbest thing I've read today....thanks for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    So, after I posted that giant list of food you could get for $100 things kind of went silent haha. I don't understand why people are saying you can barely eat a pack of noodles 3 times a day for $100/mo. Why would anyone do that? I stand by my comment that you can eat reasonably well for $100/mo without eating junk food. Sure you might have a little less variety than if you spent $500/mo but it's entirely reasonable IMO. If you were willing to bargain hunt, use coupons, etc. I'm sure you could do a lot better than the list I put together in 2 minutes as well.

    I think you’re missing the part where people like this only shop at 7-11, take a cab there (and have it wait for them), smoke a pack or two a day of cigarettes and any other stereotype you can think of!


    If I had a hard time paying for food I'd work for a place that gives you a meal with each shift that you work. Like McDonald's or Subway etc... that's just me.

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