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Thread: Climate change discussion.

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    Default Climate change discussion.

    Is it real? Is it human-caused? Can we do anything? Should we do anything? What's the best plan?

    Discuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Aka: keep out of my $30 bbl thread, thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Is it real? Is it human-caused? Can we do anything? Should we do anything? What's the best plan?

    Discuss.
    There's no question it's really really really human caused. How else could so many grocery-store-tabloid fodder celebrities and a sour-faced Scandinavian teenager be so convinced?

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    It'll be interesting to look back at a lot of the mistakes we made as a society.

    Like paper grocery bags were phased out in favor of plastic to 'save the trees' and just now we are trying to phase out plastic bags because they are much worse.

    Starbucks redesigning their cups to get rid of the straws but actually use more plastic

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    There isn't anything to discuss.

    GT1R. 8.82@169
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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    Starbucks redesigning their cups to get rid of the boobies
    the greatest mistake in the history of peoplekind
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Just wait until the first victim of a paper straw emergency tracheostomy happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    the greatest mistake in the history of peoplekind
    Undeniably, it's the straws at A&W. I keep my Mcdonalds straws for the event.
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    @dirtsniffer

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Ok. I generally think this site is generally able to have a discussion. Maybe I read your post as too much as a personal attack and maybe that's not how it was meant.

    I am not a climate change denier or cherry picking arguments, nor am I living under a rock or clinging to a dying industry.

    I am for the phase out of coal power, and I'm not against pointing out the hypocrisy of exporting thermal coal if we're trying to avoid burning it for power.

    Not the place, for sure. Pheoxs, I am saying that the size of the country is a significant factor in our emissions, using data that's available. Anyways I won't post again.
    Not a direct personal attack, but very sarcastic- granted. Let's reset.

    My POV re: climate change and fossil fuels:

    1) We need fossil fuels for essential materials we cannot reasonably replace right now (plastic, petrochemicals, solvents, etc.)

    2) We have other, less harmful ways of generating electricity. Many of these ways are price competitive with fossil fuels, while others require subsidisation to be economically viable (right now).

    3) Our society needs to accept what climate change is (and isn't) and that our focus now needs to be on mitigating further escalation as much as possible while also looking for ways to adapt to the "new normal"... whatever that winds up being.

    4) Canada has an obligation to lead this charge for a few reasons:

    a) We are among the highest-per capita emmissions producers, and if we expect other countries to play ball, we should put our money where our mouth is.
    b) We have the means, both economically and technologically, to realize the changes needed
    c) We have an economic interest in the above (clean technology is a massive industry that we more or less choose not to participate in)
    d) We have a sovereign interest (the more the arctic melts, the more exposed we become as the arctic becomes more accessible to hostile foreign actors)

    5) We need to immediately phase out coal-power and, at the very least, replace it with natural gas (as an interim solution). Brookfield/TransAlta are doing this to some extent already.

    6) Alberta, and to a lesser-extent the rest of Canada, should be looking to diversify the economy by incentivizing other industries to develop her. The NDP were doing a decent job of this (the tech grants, for example) but the Cons killed most of those. Regardless, our economy cannot rely on a one-horse and needs to diversify at some point. Why not now?

    --

    The conversation needs to shift to being both realistic (vs. inflammatory) and actionable. The time to discuss whether or not climate change is real has passed. Overwhelming evidence says it is. The questions now are "what do we do about it" and "how do we minimize consequences".

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    @pheoxs QUOTE=pheoxs;4819376]So by your logic we should just give up and do nothing despite the fact that Canada does have control over its own emissions.[/QUOTE

    No, I think what he is saying is that we are doing a lot of great things for climate change through innovation in the industry. There are lots of developing nations who could take advantage of what Canada has to offer that are considerably better than their current options. This would help impoverished nations raise wealth (GDP) and reduce global emissions at the same time. The climate is a global problem requiring a global solution. Like was said in the last thread. We could have zero emissions in Canada, but that's not stopping other nations to do what it takes to stay alive. Re: burn coal.

    What greater good would that doing?

    #politicalbs
    Last edited by arcticcat522; 09-23-2019 at 08:09 PM.

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    There are 4 relevant questions:

    1. IS the climate changing?: yes
    2. Do humans contribute to the change?: almost certainly yes.
    3. Is it a crisis?: A much more difficult question to answer
    4 Is there anything we can do about it?: From a policy perspective, likely not. From a market perspective, maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    There are 4 relevant questions:

    1. IS the climate changing?: yes
    2. Do humans contribute to the change?: almost certainly yes.
    3. Is it a crisis?: A much more difficult question to answer
    4 Is there anything we can do about it?: From a policy perspective, likely not. From a market perspective, maybe.
    4a. What's the best thing Canada can do about it?: export a cleaner source at a competitive rate with far superior tech.

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    Global emissions GO down when we export more energy, because we are displacing even dirtier shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Global emissions GO down when we export more energy, because we are displacing even dirtier shit.
    That's been my main point. Good summary!

    I want to know what the other sides argument to the contrary is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticcat522 View Post
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    That's been my main point. Good summary!

    I want to know what the other sides argument to the contrary is.
    "We're trying to put a band-aid on a stab wound."

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    My favorite part of this is that if climate change is as catastrophic and crisis as we’re led to believe, Alberta will be one of the best places on the planet to inhabit. The irony.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    @A790

    I generally agree with what you're saying. I think a carbon tax is a reasonable way to fund projects that will lower emissions, I prefer infrastructure projects like public transit. I don't think half of the population should get tax credits, if this is that important, way more of the population should be contributing. Things like paying a company to change faucets and lightbulbs is a waste of resources.

    Alberta needs to diversify. Lowering the tax rate was a good start but we can look additional grants or tax exemptions for other industries to start.

    We need to be exporting LNG and getting developing countries off coal. We are missing an opportunity here to both increase investments in Canada while lowering CO2 emissions. I brought up the thermal coal exports because of LNG opposition in BC while they continue to increase thermal coal exports.
    Last edited by dirtsniffer; 09-23-2019 at 10:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    It'll be interesting to look back at a lot of the mistakes we made as a society.

    Like paper grocery bags were phased out in favor of plastic to 'save the trees' and just now we are trying to phase out plastic bags because they are much worse.

    Starbucks redesigning their cups to get rid of the straws but actually use more plastic
    I read an article recently that said you need to reuse a cotton bag 3000 times to make it more environmentally friendly than PE bags.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paper...b0796a95d88b5f

    Also:

    Green party photoshops metal straw and reusable cup into picture of Elizabeth May.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...-elizabeth-may
    Last edited by dirtsniffer; 09-23-2019 at 10:25 PM.

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