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Thread: What to do with my investments?

  1. #101
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    In this day & age anything above 1% is overpaying and I would be targeting 0.5% or less. If you get into EFTS you can sit below .15% and over the course of your investment life that MER difference is HUGE! The TD e-series index funds are a nice middle ground, I think my set up is somewhere around 0.4%?
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    Same here. I have VFV, VCN, and VAB for a total of 0.48%. Could have been lower if I went with VAB instead but I can't be bothered to change it at this point since VAB is only 10% of my portfolio.

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    This has been an interesting thread and I have been planning to pull a lot of our investments from RBC and put them into VGRO due to the recommendations and lower MER of 0.22%. With that being said, when I checked our funds with RBC, all of them were out performing VGRO, and despite the higher MER, we're further ahead sticking with RBC. Only one of our funds was out performed by VGRO in the past 6 months.

    Maybe I did my math wrong? I'm the type where I would prefer to set it and forget it but maybe there are other managed ETF's that are a better choice then VGRO?

    The funds we have invested in include:
    RBF921
    RBF660
    RBF607
    BLK2045 (Not RBC)

    It would have been nice to compare for a greater time period then 1 year but VGRO has only been around for about a year.

    Maybe mutual funds aren't always highway robbery? Maybe my math sucks?
    I like neat cars.

  4. #104
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    Over a long enough term, those actively managed funds + their fee will underperform VGRO/XGRO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Over a long enough term, those actively managed funds + their fee will underperform VGRO/XGRO.
    Why?
    Are you basing this statement on the MER or the actual performance of the fund?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    Maybe mutual funds aren't always highway robbery?
    Maybe it depends.
    Ultracrepidarian

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    Why?
    Are you basing this statement on the MER or the actual performance of the fund?
    The actual performance of the stock market relative to manicured portfolios.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msommers View Post
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    Maybe it depends.
    That’s what I’m trying to understand. There wasn’t much support in this thread for set and forget investing in funds through the major banks but from what I can tell, I’m further ahead with the bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    The actual performance of the stock market relative to manicured portfolios.
    Maybe I’m missing something but aren’t we discussing the performance of one manicured portfolio with a low MER to other manicured portfolios with higher MER?
    Last edited by 90_Shelby; 12-15-2019 at 06:53 PM.
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  9. #109
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    VGRO isn’t a manicured portfolio, it’s just 80% equity market and 20% bond market. Non discriminatory.

    If the MER is higher for another non-discriminate equity portfolio with the same equity bond weighting it’s inherently worse.

    Just because a portfolio has a higher return doesn’t mean it is better, it’s likely a poorer risk adjusted return than a straight market investment. And on a risk adjusted basis will not outperform the market in the long term.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Just because a portfolio has a higher return doesn’t mean it is better, it’s likely a poorer risk adjusted return than a straight market investment. And on a risk adjusted basis will not outperform the market in the long term.
    This.

    XGRO/VGRO is globally diversified, self rebalancing, and contains USA/CA bonds. It's the best inexpensive set and forget option available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    That’s what I’m trying to understand. There wasn’t much support in this thread for set and forget investing in funds through the major banks but from what I can tell, I’m further ahead with the bank.



    Maybe I’m missing something but aren’t we discussing the performance of one manicured portfolio with a low MER to other manicured portfolios with higher MER?
    your recency bias is showing.

    also, and not to nitpick, but it's curated, not manicured. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    also, and not to nitpick, but it's curated, not manicured. lol
    I always wondered what it is you learn in a CFA. lol
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Pedicured is the correct term says my MBA friend.

  14. #114
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    If I understand correctly, despite other funds with higher MER's outperforming VGRO in its life span, long term, (how many years until a term is defined as long?), VGRO will outperform any other fund?


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    your recency bias is showing.

    also, and not to nitpick, but it's curated, not manicured. lol
    Not to nitpick further, but you should have quoted killramos in reference to correcting the term, "manicured portfolio".
    I like neat cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    If I understand correctly, despite other funds with higher MER's outperforming VGRO in its life span, long term, (how many years until a term is defined as long?), VGRO will outperform any other fund?
    correct

    This is all based on probabilities. It is very unlikely that an actively managed fund will outperform VGRO/XGRO.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    This has been an interesting thread and I have been planning to pull a lot of our investments from RBC and put them into VGRO due to the recommendations and lower MER of 0.22%. With that being said, when I checked our funds with RBC, all of them were out performing VGRO, and despite the higher MER, we're further ahead sticking with RBC. Only one of our funds was out performed by VGRO in the past 6 months.

    Maybe I did my math wrong? I'm the type where I would prefer to set it and forget it but maybe there are other managed ETF's that are a better choice then VGRO?

    The funds we have invested in include:
    RBF921
    RBF660
    RBF607
    BLK2045 (Not RBC)

    It would have been nice to compare for a greater time period then 1 year but VGRO has only been around for about a year.

    Maybe mutual funds aren't always highway robbery? Maybe my math sucks?
    These are all equity funds. VGRO is 20% bonds. Also self balancing portfolios must return less.

  17. #117
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    And maybe one way to look at this is that it is not surprising to find an actively managed fun that has outperformed over a short recent period of time. If you wait six more months, there will be a new list of active funds that have outperformed.

    It's not impossible that some actively managed fund will perform better in the future too, but the thing is, there's no reliable method to pick that fund.

    Every serious statistical look at this topic has come back with the same result. Passive low-fee investments beat actively managed higher fee options in the majority of cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Every serious statistical look at this topic has come back with the same result. Passive low-fee investments beat actively managed higher fee options in the majority of cases.
    This was ultimately what I was trying to determine but the consensus above is that the passive investment will outperform the managed fund regardless of the fees.

    My MER is only .59% higher then VGRO’s fee therefore I don’t need the managed fund to beat VGRO by much to be further ahead. I would have guessed that sticking with the bank would be a better option but apparently not.
    I like neat cars.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    This was ultimately what I was trying to determine but the consensus above is that the passive investment will outperform the managed fund regardless of the fees.

    My MER is only .59% higher then VGRO’s fee therefore I don’t need the managed fund to beat VGRO by much to be further ahead. I would have guessed that sticking with the bank would be a better option but apparently not.
    The statistics still hold true whether or not you include the management fees or not - when adjusted for risk. The problem here isn't so much the fee, as it is the fallacy that humans are good at consistently picking securities.

    Many "Actively managed" funds are actually indexing nowadays. They are shadowing the index funds without actually buying the related ETFs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The problem here isn't so much the fee, as it is the fallacy that humans are good at consistently picking securities.
    This PLUS the fee makes it doubly compelling.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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