Tesla vehicle discussion. No Elon or stock chat.

[rage2]

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Heat and SOC. Cold is a factor too. Optimal battery temp for Tesla is 40ish degrees.

I don’t think it’s about engineering as much as focus. Tesla is trying to protect the battery. Porsche is protecting performance. My take anyway.

Uhh, no, it’s all about engineering. Porsche over engineered the crap out of battery thermal management so that it can pull off repeatable performance. The S has to protect the battery because it can’t manage the temps in extreme cases. Same goes for the 3, I mean it can’t even keep battery temps up on a winter drive.

The focus for Tesla is to do the bare minimum to get the job done in California. Bumper to bumper traffic, and acceleration bursts here and there. Anything else and you start running into compromises.

Fun read on taycan thermal management: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ery-18557.html

[benyl]

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Same goes for the 3, I mean it can’t even keep battery temps up on a winter drive.

I haven't had time to test to see if I put the car in track mode when it is cold to see if it heats the battery. From what I have read, track mode improves cooling. What I don't know is if it gets the battery to the target temp, regardless of ambient. I have ScanMyTesla with a OBD cable in both cars. I should test it out and see if I need to be driving in track mode everywhere in the winter. haha.

edit: looks like it might be cooling only:

Track Focused Powertrain Cooling The high output power required for track driving generates a lot of heat, so endurance on the track requires more aggressive cooling of the powertrain. We proactively drop the temperatures of the battery and the drive units in preparation for the track and continue to cool them down in between drive sessions. We can also allow operation of the powertrain beyond typical thermal limits and increase our refrigerant system capacity by overclocking the AC compressor into higher speed ranges.

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The focus for Tesla is to do the bare minimum to get the job done in California. Bumper to bumper traffic, and acceleration bursts here and there. Anything else and you start running into compromises.

I have no doubt Porsche is an engineering marvel. But is Porsche making any money? I think GM still loses money on each Bolt they sell.

The S / X have older tech and likely can't sustain the repeated launches. The 3 seems like Tesla has made some progress.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/28...s-to-200-km-h/

Don't get me wrong, the 3 is still compromised. I ok with compromise, mostly because I have to be. haha I can't afford a Turbo S.

[bjstare]

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Yeah on paper the it seems the Tesla beats the Porsche in all metrics. But in real world the Porsche has better performance and achieves similar mileage. German engineering vs American engineering?

More like tech company making cars vs. actual automotive company making cars.

[The_Rural_Juror]

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More like tech company making cars vs. actual automotive company making cars.

Kind of like people in Strathcona pretending to be in Aspen vs actual people living in Aspen.

At least they have great customer service according to the first consumer Taycan passing through Calgary.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th....879/post-9975

[rage2]

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I have no doubt Porsche is an engineering marvel. But is Porsche making any money? I think GM still loses money on each Bolt they sell.

The S / X have older tech and likely can't sustain the repeated launches. The 3 seems like Tesla has made some progress.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/28...s-to-200-km-h/

Don't get me wrong, the 3 is still compromised. I ok with compromise, mostly because I have to be. haha I can't afford a Turbo S.

I have no doubt Porsche is making money on the Taycan Turbo S at 250k a pop lol. Don’t get me wrong, I’m probably closer to buying a Tesla than a Taycan at this point.

As for the bolt comparison, it’s pretty similar to Tesla. Each bolt GM sells loses money but makes up for it by not needing to buy regulatory credits. Tesla (arguably) makes money on each Tesla sold because of regulatory credit sales.

[mo_money2supe]

I'm only just seeing the last week's posts now. While I can't speak on the Performance S's response to heat on repeated 1/4-mile runs, I can speak to my Performance 3's performance on back-to-back 1/4 runs. I ran mine back in Fall 2018 at one of the 1/4 events at the half-mile air strip (RIP to the land owner btw) and had VERY consistent times throughout. Never an issue with overheating (note this was before Track Mode was available on the P3s). The fastest time I clocked was 11.78s @ 117-ish mph and I think worst time was 11.9-ish (mostly due to poor traction at the start) - I can scan in all my slips if anyone's interested. This was before the two 5% power increase updates, on a very non-sticky track, before Track Mode was available, and I was still on the OEM 20s, which are quite heavy. I haven't been back to the track since the two power increase updates and with my WedsSports on the car, but I'm anticipating breaking into the 11.5s range with a good launch.

And wow, Richard, you still exist on here! Haven't seen you on here for at least a decade plus!

[rc2002]

I still do some lurking here and there. I’m pretty interested in this topic in particular.

It sounds like some of the issues are figured out in the Model 3. And it might not matter from a daily driving perspective unless you are racing at every traffic light.

I suspect Porsche had an agenda as well - while the Model S might be the closest in price to the Taycan, it’s not really a fair to compare to a Tesla that was released almost 10 years ago.

On another note, not sure if it was discussed previously in this thread but the 800V charging of the Porsche seems to translate into some faster charging times. Does anyone know if Tesla is moving that route with its super chargers?

[benyl]

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On another note, not sure if it was discussed previously in this thread but the 800V charging of the Porsche seems to translate into some faster charging times. Does anyone know if Tesla is moving that route with its super chargers?

V3 Superchargers are capable of 250KW. Only the model 3 long rang (and performance) are capable to accept this charge speed. Standard range plus models can accept 170KW.

[rc2002]

From some quick googling it looks like the 800V (270kW) might or might not translate into a significant difference when it comes to charge time. Some sources say the Tesla is faster, others say the Porsche is faster. I suppose the 800V might allow for lower temperatures as the current would be halved as compared to 400V resulting in less losses to heat but not sure if it makes a difference in the real world.

[ExtraSlow]

I like to sleep at least 7 hour a night, and it takes me at least a few minutes on each end to brush my teeth and eat breakfast. No biggie really for overnight charging speeds.

[rage2]

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From some quick googling it looks like the 800V (270kW) might or might not translate into a significant difference when it comes to charge time. Some sources say the Tesla is faster, others say the Porsche is faster. I suppose the 800V might allow for lower temperatures as the current would be halved as compared to 400V resulting in less losses to heat but not sure if it makes a difference in the real world.

What sources say Tesla is faster? The rates are peak rates, everything I’ve seen has Tesla slowing down much earlier than the Taycan. By 80% Tesla slows down to a crawl, while the Taycan goes hard till 95%. The trick there is that the Taycan battery is oversized and capacity reserved just for this situation, it only uses 85% of the battery’s full capacity to allow this to happen reliably.

These charge rates only matter for road trips anyways.

[never]

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I like to sleep at least 7 hour a night, and it takes me at least a few minutes on each end to brush my teeth and eat breakfast. No biggie really for overnight charging speeds.

You eat breakfast before you go to bed? Interesting!

[benyl]

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These charge rates only matter for road trips anyways.

I plugged in 15 minutes ago. An 800v battery wont help me when I can only get 200v at 30amps.

[ExtraSlow]

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You eat breakfast before you go to bed? Interesting!

Right after I brush my teeth, apparently.

[ExtraSlow]

Hat tip to Tesla for building a million automobiles. Amazing.

[rage2]

Congrats on beating a month of VW production.

[bjstare]

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Hat tip to Tesla for building a million automobiles. Amazing.

It's easy to pump out big volume when you only have to put up a big tent to build them in and don't do any QA/QC.

[The Cosworth]

Not specific to Tesla but:

According to a Dutch study, previous calculations relied on mistaken premises.
The fact that people have to charge their EVs is both their primary strength and supposedly their Achilles’ heel at the same time. Electricity is the most efficient means to move around, but EV critics say that advantage goes down the drain if coal power plants are in the grid. That fallacy is not the only one around EVs and GHG (greenhouse gases) emissions. A Dutch study claims all numbers so far, even the best ones, are wrong.

In other words, electric cars would indirectly emit much less carbon and other gases than previous studies based on six main mistakes they made. The study – conducted by Auke Hoekstra and Professor Maarten Steinbuch, from the Eindhoven University of Technology – lists them one by one.

Source: https://insideevs.com/news/441944/el...h-less-carbon/

[bjstare]

Are Tesla’s getting any better? In terms of performance variants, build quality, etc.

Some of the journalists I follow are generally saying they’re awesome (eg Jason Cammisa on the model y performance)

[The_Rural_Juror]

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Are Tesla’s getting any better? In terms of performance variants, build quality, etc.

Some of the journalists I follow are generally saying they’re awesome (eg Jason Cammisa on the model y performance)

https://thedriven.io/2020/05/07/wort...-a-test-drive/

Watch Sandy's tear downs. Model 3 was poor. Model Y was phenomenal. Elon just said that they are going to unveil a completely different way of constructing the Model Y on battery day (Sep 22).
They still don't play well with Apple so that sucks for the Aspen people.