New cigarette packaging

[Disoblige]

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I still want to know why cannabis taxes werent also boosted?

If the goal is to take a huge chunk of market share out of the illicit market, you aren't going to be doing so by adding taxes to an already overpriced legal product.

[A790]

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https://trib.al/0Z10a70

Theres more and more articles daily showing the lack of evidence.

When you start weeding out the crap with bogus methodology... The evidence keeps getting weaker as anything but a narcotic.

Citing one study that itself studies other studies re: mental health is not a great reinforcement for your argument. I mean, tylenol doesn't do much for mental health either, but I think we can all agree it has medicinal value.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Lets be realistic. We're pushing 120$ cartons.

All this does is feed the black market. What is a carton of indian smokes running - 40$?

Yup. I just delivered a plastic bag full of shrink wrapped bricks of cigarettes to someone last week since I was going that way, must have been 500 smokes in it and it didn't cost much. My buddy in Vancouver buys smokes for $5.00 a pack all the time.

Government is still dumb enough to believe prohibition and sin taxes solve problems.

[AndyL]

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If the goal is to take a huge chunk of market share out of the illicit market, you aren't going to be doing so by adding taxes to an already overpriced legal product.

Versus creating a massive black market for tobacco?

[Disoblige]

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Versus creating a massive black market for tobacco?

Just answering the question on the cannabis side, which is still in its infant stages of legality.
Cigarette side of things, no idea what the thought process is.

[AndyL]

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Citing one study that itself studies other studies re: mental health is not a great reinforcement for your argument. I mean, tylenol doesn't do much for mental health either, but I think we can all agree it has medicinal value.

We cant agree it has medicinal value... Besides as a narcotic pain killer. The studies dont reflect those claims.

The anti anxiety and depressant use is the other most hyped use - yet as described - the studies there do not show the benefit claimed.

So were back to its a narcotic painkiller. With recreational uses.

[A790]

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So were back to its a narcotic painkiller. With recreational uses.

So, in other words, it provides medicinal value.

[AndyL]

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So, in other words, it provides medicinal value.

So does Percocet and hydromorph.

[Disoblige]

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So does Percocet and hydromorph.

I don't advocate smoking anything, but one would argue the side effects of oils, topicals, etc. is way less than current opioids.
So tax smoking sure, but I wouldn't tax other cannabis products that you don't inhale. But again, the legal market is so early that it does not make sense to. And as we see with tobacco, overtax and you see the negative effects.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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We cant agree it has medicinal value... Besides as a narcotic pain killer. The studies dont reflect those claims.

The anti anxiety and depressant use is the other most hyped use - yet as described - the studies there do not show the benefit claimed.

So were back to its a narcotic painkiller. With recreational uses.

Aside from the pain and mental health benefits, it also helps people sleep and helps with people who have disorders that affect appetite.

A good friend of mine is a diabetic, he has severe nerve pain and insomnia. Pain killers weren't really doing it for him anymore and the prescription sleeping pills for his insomnia were addictive and ineffective - a little bit of cannabis oil (not enough to feel really high or anything) and both go away, dramatically improving his quality of life. His doctors suggested it and it's been working wonders so far.

I know someone else who was a borderline alcoholic, and switched to taking little bits of cannabis oil instead. Now he doesn't drink, and his health has dramatically improved. Not the greatest story but it has improved his situation considerably.

My own family doctor suggested it to me without being prompted, she is a huge advocate of it as well.

Say what you want about it, but there are numerous medical uses for it, doctors are recommending it, and in most people it's non-addictive which can't be said about a lot of other medicines, sleeping pills, etc.

CBD oil can dramatically improve certain types of otherwise incurable epilepsy. There is a good science podcast about a kid who wasn't supposed to make it past age 2 or 3 because they had seizures every 1-2 minutes, literally taking over his life and also his moms'. They tried CBD oil and now his frequency of seizures has dropped to the point where he can have a normal life (he's 5 or 6 now) - so he went from a death sentence to a functioning kid. If that isn't medicinal I don't know what is.

If you smoke it that's a different story as it's far less healthy and way harder to manage dosages, but indigestibles/topicals, etc. are a different story.

[AndyL]

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Aside from the pain and mental health benefits, it also helps people sleep and helps with people who have disorders that affect appetite.

A good friend of mine is a diabetic, he has severe nerve pain and insomnia. Pain killers weren't really doing it for him anymore and the prescription sleeping pills for his insomnia were addictive and ineffective - a little bit of cannabis oil (not enough to feel really high or anything) and both go away, dramatically improving his quality of life. His doctors suggested it and it's been working wonders so far.

I know someone else who was a borderline alcoholic, and switched to taking little bits of cannabis oil instead. Now he doesn't drink, and his health has dramatically improved. Not the greatest story but it has improved his situation considerably.

My own family doctor suggested it to me without being prompted, she is a huge advocate of it as well.

Say what you want about it, but there are numerous medical uses for it, doctors are recommending it, and in most people it's non-addictive which can't be said about a lot of other medicines, sleeping pills, etc.

CBD oil can dramatically improve certain types of otherwise incurable epilepsy. There is a good science podcast about a kid who wasn't supposed to make it past age 2 or 3 because they had seizures every 1-2 minutes, literally taking over his life and also his moms'. They tried CBD oil and now his frequency of seizures has dropped to the point where he can have a normal life (he's 5 or 6 now) - so he went from a death sentence to a functioning kid. If that isn't medicinal I don't know what is.

If you smoke it that's a different story as it's far less healthy and way harder to manage dosages, but indigestibles/topicals, etc. are a different story.

My point was the medicinal use besides painkiller - are poorly studied and the 'proof' is right up there with pixie dust essential oils and crystals up the vagina.

So claiming it shouldnt be taxed as its medicinal... Is pretty weak. Thats what the medicinal providers provide not ALGC retailers.

[Disoblige]

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My point was the medicinal use besides painkiller - are poorly studied and the 'proof' is right up there with pixie dust essential oils and crystals up the vagina.

So claiming it shouldnt be taxed as its medicinal... Is pretty weak. Thats what the medicinal providers provide not ALGC retailers.

What about scientific studies that show CBD effect on reduced seizures for those suffering from epilepsy?

[JRSC00LUDE]

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My point was the medicinal use besides painkiller - are poorly studied and the 'proof' is right up there with pixie dust essential oils and crystals up the vagina.

So claiming it shouldnt be taxed as its medicinal... Is pretty weak. Thats what the medicinal providers provide not ALGC retailers.

I'm not sure what the THC/CBD version of a climate denier sounds like but it's gotta be this.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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My point was the medicinal use besides painkiller - are poorly studied and the 'proof' is right up there with pixie dust essential oils and crystals up the vagina.

So claiming it shouldnt be taxed as its medicinal... Is pretty weak. Thats what the medicinal providers provide not ALGC retailers.

So, giving a child with a death sentence a new lease on life isn't proof? I don't know what to tell you. There are lots of similar stories, it's not a one-off. We're not talking about people sniffing an essential oil and claiming a non-existent disease is cured.

There's still lots we don't know about it, but that goes for a lot of things - perhaps most famously, anesthesia, which we use in hospitals and other clinics daily.

Charlotte, a little girl with SCN1A‐confirmed Dravet syndrome, was recently featured in a special that aired on CNN. Through exhaustive personal research and assistance from a Colorado‐based medical marijuana group (Realm of Caring), Charlotte's mother started adjunctive therapy with a high concentration cannabidiol/Δ9‐tetrahydrocannabinol (CBD:THC) strain of cannabis, now known as Charlotte's Web. This extract, slowly titrated over weeks and given in conjunction with her existing antiepileptic drug regimen, reduced Charlotte's seizure frequency from nearly 50 convulsive seizures per day to now 2–3 nocturnal convulsions per month. This effect has persisted for the last 20 months, and Charlotte has been successfully weaned from her other antiepileptic drugs. We briefly review some of the history, preclinical and clinical data, and controversies surrounding the use of medical marijuana for the treatment of epilepsy, and make a case that the desire to isolate and treat with pharmaceutical grade compounds from cannabis (specifically CBD) may be inferior to therapy with whole plant extracts. Much more needs to be learned about the mechanisms of antiepileptic activity of the phytocannabinoids and other constituents of Cannabis sativa.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/epi.12610

[A790]

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My point was the medicinal use besides painkiller

Your original post/point didn't reference anything other than "it has no medical use and studies prove that". Now you're moving the goalposts.

Don't do that. That's poor form, Andy.

Bottom line: cannabis has obvious medical uses as clearly demonstrated by dozens (or more) studies and trials that indicate that. More properties are sure to be discovered in time as it continues to be studied, but to make any claim that if offers no medical benefit is straight up bullshit (and you know it).

[AndyL]

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What about scientific studies that show CBD effect on reduced seizures for those suffering from epilepsy?

And again - we keep going down that annectdotal versus science based evidence road.

But its not allowed to be marketed as a cure for anything... Cry big pharma conspiracy all you want but the evidence is annecdotal and not science based and this is where the issue lies.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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And again - we keep going down that annectdotal versus science based evidence road.

But its not allowed to be marketed as a cure for anything... Cry big pharma conspiracy all you want but the evidence is annecdotal and not science based and this is where the issue lies.

What's anecdotal about people ailments being cured or improved as a direct result of ingesting cannabis oil? You take X product and you get the expected outcome. That's like saying if I ate a KG of rat poison and died, it's danger is purely anecdotal.

My doctor suggested I try it for restless leg syndrome (or whatever it is I have) and I am sleeping better than I have in the last 10 years with such a tiny amount I can't even feel it.

[AndyL]

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Your original post/point didn't reference anything other than "it has no medical use and studies prove that". Now you're moving the goalposts.

Don't do that. That's poor form, Andy.

Bottom line: cannabis has obvious medical uses as clearly demonstrated by dozens (or more) studies and trials that indicate that. More properties are sure to be discovered in time as it continues to be studied, but to make any claim that if offers no medical benefit is straight up bullshit (and you know it).

You set the goal poast claiming medicinal.

I showed the study where the 2nd most common 'medicinal' use was tested. The benefits were not found true.

While it can be prescribed it doesnt cure anything.

Insert leonard hofstaeder "don't blame me, blame science"

As its being sold by AGLC as a recreational drug... Medicinal doesnt apply. So it should be facing the same sin tax increases as the others...

[A790]

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You set the goal poast claiming medicinal.

I showed the study where the 2nd most common 'medicinal' use was tested. The benefits were not found true.

While it can be prescribed it doesnt cure anything.

Insert leonard hofstaeder "don't blame me, blame science"

As its being sold by AGLC as a recreational drug... Medicinal doesnt apply. So it should be facing the same sin tax increases as the others...

So you're saying that painkillers in general have no accepted medical use?

By the way: since when was it a requirement for something to cure something else in order to have medicinal value? Do drugs that keep HIV beat into submission have no medical value either?

C'mon mate, just admit that you made a dumb argument and move on. This whole "I have to be right at all costs" bullshit is tiring and a little beneath you.

[Ca_Silvia13]

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You set the goal poast claiming medicinal.

I showed the study where the 2nd most common 'medicinal' use was tested. The benefits were not found true.

While it can be prescribed it doesnt cure anything.

Insert leonard hofstaeder "don't blame me, blame science"

As its being sold by AGLC as a recreational drug... Medicinal doesnt apply. So it should be facing the same sin tax increases as the others...

Before it ever went legal it was sold via Nature Health Service among other businesses as medicinal. Including being able to claim that on your taxes as said medical expense. If what you are claiming is to be true (no medical benefits) why would these massive benefit companies payout for something that is unfounded to be medical? Those benefit companies are in the business to not payout and have huge legal budgets for investigating this stuff. Let alone CRA accepting those claims, which they did.

Plus everyone relies on the US to do studies and stuff. It's still a schedule 1 drug federally in the states. Actual medical studies will be slow to come out if that's what you are waiting on.