I got a stunting ticket in the mail. Dash cam user complained to police about me.

[littledan]

Ya, I fail to see how filtering is safer than just staying in your proper lane and observing approaching traffic via your mirrors. When I took my motorcyle riding course they drilled into us to stay in 1st gear at the light and watch your 6 so that you could evade an approaching vehicle if required. Then you could pop the clutch and duck into the "filtering" lane only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise you might get sideswiped by an unsuspecting cager.

I mean, if im on the highway and traffic comes to an abrupt halt due to an accident etc, I am also in the crush zone even in a pickup truck. So that makes it ok to squeeze between the two cars in front of me for "safety" ??

[rage2]

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I don't think there's a frosty reception to filtering at all (on a motorcycle). Filtering is great for everyone; that doesn't make it legal. The frostyness you're feeling is just beyond telling you that you are in for an uphill battle if you attempt to fight this.

Not at all. Filtering makes sense to me, as long as you launch harder than me and not in my way I'm completely OK with it lol. Cyclists filtering, fuck that. Even when I am a cyclist on the road, I do not filter for courtesy sake. I'd rather take the risk of being in a crush zone and 0.00001% of a rear end accident than piss off some asshole in a car that'll 1% chance of smashing me.

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Rear end collisions are the most common traffic collision in Alberta. Seems logical to want to mitigate that risk while being a vulnerable road user.

By all means, get your voice heard, find like minded people and try to enact change. All we're saying is fighting a stunting ticket will do fuck all, and your defence in arguing that it's legal won't get you off that ticket. You're confusing 2 different thoughts here, us helping you fight the ticket, and allowing filtering. The 2 discussion tracks are independent of one another.

[16hypen3sp]

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Were you the guy that lane filtered rush hour traffic moving at ~50km/h on Deerfoot just before the Ivor-Strong Bridge a month or so ago? Fucking mental some of you bikers!

Nah, I'm around Red Deer and I only filter in stopped traffic at red lights. Which there are a lot of... It's Red Light Red Deer after all.

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Aw man...there's a reason why I stay out of these sort of threads usually. Everyone has given their input and interpreted the same (or similar) legislation(s) in several different ways. That's the beauty of law. All that being said, if the OP wants to stick to his guns and see what he can do with the ticket in court, then all the power to him. Whether or not I think he's got a chance is irrelevant. I mean there maybe issues with the ticket once the disclosure is reviewed in details even if they may not necessarily be what the OP thinks. But I think it's better to let him have his day with it.

Hey shak, can I request disclosure at any time? If I do request it, will it harm my ability to just get the fine reduced on my court date? I'm just curious to see what comes in the disclosure.

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Just a quick tidbit. Your convenience and "safety" have no place being ranked higher than the worth of other motorists convenience and safety, just because you ride a motorcycle. It's ironic that you continue to try and make it about safety, when you're more likely to be hit by some road rager due to filtering, than you would be to get rear ended by a car while sitting in the "crush zone".

I don't think there was ever a time on my bike where I thought to myself, "You know what would be a good idea? I should pull up in this non existent lane between two idiots who don't expect me coming and are likely to smash me when I spook them."

Passenger vehicles and large trucks are already ranked higher in safety, hence why AB Trans classifies motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians as vulnerable road users. Unsure of your 'convenience' argument. The studies have shown that filtering and splitting in general are safer than riding normally. I'm not more likely to be hit while filtering. I'm moving in stopped traffic. higher chance of being spit on maybe. The difference between you and I as riders is, one of us would rather sit in the crush zone, the other wouldn't.

[pheoxs]

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Ya, I fail to see how filtering is safer than just staying in your proper lane and observing approaching traffic via your mirrors. When I took my motorcyle riding course they drilled into us to stay in 1st gear at the light and watch your 6 so that you could evade an approaching vehicle if required. Then you could pop the clutch and duck into the "filtering" lane only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise you might get sideswiped by an unsuspecting cager.

I mean, if im on the highway and traffic comes to an abrupt halt due to an accident etc, I am also in the crush zone even in a pickup truck. So that makes it ok to squeeze between the two cars in front of me for "safety" ??

Yeah ... gotta agree here. Let me preface by saying I do ride as well.

Using 'the crunch zone' as an excuse to not stop in your lane doesn't really make sense to me. You have brake lights and your bike is 6' long. Unless of course you are weaving through traffic and think 'oh that gaps big enough' and then change lanes last minute to get slightly ahead. Then sure, maybe they don't have space to stop in time but thats on you for creating that situation, not them.

Riding up beside a vehicle is equally dangerous because when the light turns green you are all starting to go together with minimal distance between you. What if one of them weaves a little? Or what if two bikes filter on both sides of a truck? What if one realizes they are in the wrong lane, etc. In OP's picture he is between a dually and a school bus, neither of those are narrow vehicles.

Look, don't get me wrong. I do think it's not that big of deal and should probably be legal. But acting like it's significantly safer is just mental gymnastics you've made up to try and justify getting ahead of people at intersections.

[shakalaka]

OP - yes you can request disclosure whenever. No, it does not impede your ability to negotiate on the day of the trial if you've requested disclosure. In fact, if you're even thinking about going to trial - requesting the disclosure is the first thing you should do.

Also, as a side note to everyone else, just found out that Edmonton has now stopped reducing photo radar speeding tickets all together. I had to deal with a client's matter and many people were in line to get their photo radar speeding tickets reduced as usual, but they were all sent away. I am not sure if this has happened in Calgary yet or not though. I know lot of rural jurisdictions did this several months ago and now it appears that Edmonton has followed suit.

[16hypen3sp]

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By all means, get your voice heard, find like minded people and try to enact change. All we're saying is fighting a stunting ticket will do fuck all, and your defence in arguing that it's legal won't get you off that ticket. You're confusing 2 different thoughts here, us helping you fight the ticket, and allowing filtering. The 2 discussion tracks are independent of one another.

I agree. It's just shitty that lumped it into stunting instead of something that just focused on the lane. Anyway, like you said earlier, cash grab.

[Kobe]

Curious, as I'm assuming it's just a fine without points.

If you do go to court and lose and they know and confirm it was you driving the motorcycle do they/can they add a point reduction to the penalty as well? Are they allowed?

I also never did understand this law, i know in California they allow it, but it was a bit scary driving at the start knowing they can be right by your car (I too had a motorcycle) but from a car drivers perspective.

[rage2]

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I also never did understand this law, i know in California they allow it, but it was a bit scary driving at the start knowing they can be right by your car (I too had a motorcycle) but from a car drivers perspective.

California allows both filtering and splitting. I'm defining filtering as moving up in line at the light, and splitting is passing between cars at speed.

[16hypen3sp]

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Yeah ... gotta agree here. Let me preface by saying I do ride as well.

Using 'the crunch zone' as an excuse to not stop in your lane doesn't really make sense to me. You have brake lights and your bike is 6' long. Unless of course you are weaving through traffic and think 'oh that gaps big enough' and then change lanes last minute to get slightly ahead. Then sure, maybe they don't have space to stop in time but thats on you for creating that situation, not them.

Riding up beside a vehicle is equally dangerous because when the light turns green you are all starting to go together with minimal distance between you. What if one of them weaves a little? Or what if two bikes filter on both sides of a truck? What if one realizes they are in the wrong lane, etc. In OP's picture he is between a dually and a school bus, neither of those are narrow vehicles.

Look, don't get me wrong. I do think it's not that big of deal and should probably be legal. But acting like it's significantly safer is just mental gymnastics you've made up to try and justify getting ahead of people at intersections.

Here's another 'what if' - what if a truck driven by a distracted driver plows into the back of you while you sit behind a tractor-trailer at a red light?

There is a lot of literature out there that discusses increased safety benefits than riding normally. It's just the way it is.

https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/0...-rider-saftey/

Toronto pilot program discussion:
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mo...efits-everyone

@shakalaka thanks for the info.

[rage2]

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Here's another 'what if' - what if a truck driven by a distracted driver plows into the back of you while you sit behind a tractor-trailer at a red light?

What are the numbers of these incidents?

[pheoxs]

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Here's another 'what if' - what if a truck driven by a distracted driver plows into the back of you while you sit behind a tractor-trailer at a red light?

There is a lot of literature out there that discusses increased safety benefits than riding normally. It's just the way it is.

https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/0...-rider-saftey/

Toronto pilot program discussion:
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mo...efits-everyone

@shakalaka thanks for the info.

What if a semi is pulling up to the light, their lug nuts break off because of poor maintenance and the wheel lets loose from the semi and rolls forward. It goes at a slight angle and narrowed goes between the two vehicles and nails the bike that filtered between those two vehicles.

[R-Audi]

Somewhat related... are bicycles allowed to split lanes/filter?
F*ck that drives me nuts. finally pass the guy only to have them drive right by at a stop light and go through it all again.

[16hypen3sp]

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What are the numbers of these incidents?

As stated earlier, rear end collisions are the most common. Here is a quick breakdown of Edmonton and Calgary in 2013: https://www.litwiniuk.com/rear-end-c...y-and-alberta/

The Alberta gov lumps it with following too closely, 31% of all collisions. In Edmonton, 37% of all collisions. Calgary 32%.
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/2502...oad/ar2016.pdf
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportati...nualReport.pdf
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=75329

Not small numbers.

[Tik-Tok]

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Here's another 'what if' - what if a truck driven by a distracted driver plows into the back of you while you sit behind a tractor-trailer at a red light?

There is a lot of literature out there that discusses increased safety benefits than riding normally. It's just the way it is.

Isn't that just the inherent risk you voluntarily take when on a motorcycle though? No one forces you to ride.

[phil98z24]

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Somewhat related... are bicycles allowed to split lanes/filter?
F*ck that drives me nuts. finally pass the guy only to have them drive right by at a stop light and go through it all again.

No. They have to follow the same rules as a motor vehicle while on a roadway.

[16hypen3sp]

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Isn't that just the inherent risk you voluntarily take when on a motorcycle though? No one forces you to ride.

Yup. May as well work to lessen it.

[rage2]

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As stated earlier, rear end collisions are the most common. Here is a quick breakdown of Edmonton and Calgary in 2013: https://www.litwiniuk.com/rear-end-c...y-and-alberta/

The Alberta gov lumps it with following too closely, 31% of all collisions. In Edmonton, 37% of all collisions. Calgary 32%.
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/2502...oad/ar2016.pdf
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportati...nualReport.pdf
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=75329

Not small numbers.

I’m talking about motorcycles getting rear ended. Surprisingly it’s only 6% of all motorcycle accidents according to NHTSA. Ironically, in California with filtering law, it’s 25%.

Motorcycles gets rear ended a lot less because drivers don’t tailgate motorcyclists like they do cars.

[ExtraSlow]

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I’m talking about motorcycles getting rear ended. Surprisingly it’s only 6% of all motorcycle accidents according to NHTSA. Ironically, in California with filtering law, it’s 25%.

People will always overweight the seriousness of something bad happening when they feel the event is out of their control, regardless of it's statistical likelihood.
It's the same reason people have a fear of flying, but they'll drive cars every day. the feeling that something bad could happen that they would be powerless to prevent.

[Buster]

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People will always overweight the seriousness of something bad happening when they feel the event is out of their control, regardless of it's statistical likelihood.
It's the same reason people have a fear of flying, but they'll drive cars every day. the feeling that something bad could happen that they would be powerless to prevent.

You. Smart.

[ExtraSlow]

The "behavioural economics" of risk are tremendously fascinating.