Can we talk abut school funding and the "voucher" option?

[mazdavirgin]

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Always sad to see.

Their kids either don’t give a shit so they’re wasting money. Or the kids give a shit and they’ll succeed wherever they go and that money can be spent (or saved) better elsewhere.

I say this as somebody who grew up in the private school system: it isn’t worth the cost!

I think is generally because people fall trap to the whole just world logical fallacy. Intelligence and academic success is largely genetic. Meaning you're either born with it or you're born without it... You can send someone all day long to private school but you're not going to fix the initial problem. Just like your can send Albert Einstein to the worst public school ever and you still have a genius.

[syscal]

You're undervaluing the "who luck", or "who you know" factor.

[jwslam]

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Always sad to see.

Their kids either don’t give a shit so they’re wasting money. Or the kids give a shit and they’ll succeed wherever they go and that money can be spent (or saved) better elsewhere.

I say this as somebody who grew up in the private school system: it isn’t worth the cost!

Define "better spent elsewhere"? Is "better spent elsewhere" driving a new Benz vs driving their 10yo Honda? Is "better spent elsewhere" eating $200 no-menu pre-paid tastings?

[kertejud2]

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Define "better spent elsewhere"? Is "better spent elsewhere" driving a new Benz vs driving their 10yo Honda? Is "better spent elsewhere" eating $200 no-menu pre-paid tastings?

How much post-secondary savings is being diverted to K-12 education? What family or individual activities are being sacrificed? The cost of that year of private school is a couple nice family vacations and experiences.

Some people have the money to do all that and pay for private school. And get the new Benz. And the food tastings. So really what does it matter to them? But the ones who have to make sacrifices, that’s where I cringe.

[ExtraSlow]

School choice back in the news. Or in the opinion section.
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...nd-our-society

[speedog]

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School choice back in the news. Or in the opinion section.
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...nd-our-society

Opinion piece written by Michael Van Pelt who is the president and CEO of think-tank Cardus - Cardus was formed by the teachings of Jesus and by the Christian social thought tradition as it has developed over centuries. (from their web site)

[ExtraSlow]

Oh yes, opinion section.

[R-Audi]

Another 'not reading the entire thread, but a few pages'

The one that grinds my gears are the charter schools. Full subsidized by public dollars (except for additional trips etc) and on top of that they get to use buildings for the operating costs. The buildings that are closed by not enough public enrollment. Basically a private school subsidized 100% by public dollars.
One particular school actually had enough money last year to do out and buy a fully operational camp in kananaskis last year for its students to use....

[killramos]

If they are providing the same or better service as a public school for the dollars. Why would you care?

If they are providing the same or better service for the money, with enough leftover to reinvest in additional infrastructure. Explain to me why we shouldn’t give these charters more money and the government run schools who perform worse for the money less.

[ExtraSlow]

If your primary goal is the education of the children, then it makes sense for the money to follow the kids wherever they choose to be educated.
If your primary goal is to protect "the system" then it makes sense to prevent alternatives.

They are opposed goals.

[suntan]

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Another 'not reading the entire thread, but a few pages'

The one that grinds my gears are the charter schools. Full subsidized by public dollars (except for additional trips etc) and on top of that they get to use buildings for the operating costs. The buildings that are closed by not enough public enrollment. Basically a private school subsidized 100% by public dollars.
One particular school actually had enough money last year to do out and buy a fully operational camp in kananaskis last year for its students to use....

They're specialized focus schools.

Do you also have an issue with CBE run specialized focus schools?

[Buster]

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If your primary goal is the education of the children, then it makes sense for the money to follow the kids wherever they choose to be educated.
If your primary goal is to protect "the system" then it makes sense to prevent alternatives.

They are opposed goals.

markets are evil, comrade.

[ExtraSlow]

Two ways to improve enrollment in the CBE "regular" schools. 1) reduce choices for students or 2) make the regular program schools better so students will choose them willingly.

[Buster]

Publicly funding shit sucks.

I ask people if they want their groceries provided by something like the AHS and CBE. After getting horrified looks at the prospect, it's easy to ask people why they put up with it for their kids education and their healthcare.

[suntan]

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Two ways to improve enrollment in the CBE "regular" schools. 1) reduce choices for students or 2) make the regular program schools better so students will choose them willingly.

It's almost 100% due to changing demographics in the neighbourhoods.

- - - Updated - - -

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Publicly funding shit sucks.

I ask people if they want their groceries provided by something like the AHS and CBE. After getting horrified looks at the prospect, it's easy to ask people why they put up with it for their kids education and their healthcare.

I use the gov't run restaurant scenario.

I once got one guy so angry that he started throwing things at me.

[kertejud2]

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Another 'not reading the entire thread, but a few pages'

The one that grinds my gears are the charter schools. Full subsidized by public dollars (except for additional trips etc) and on top of that they get to use buildings for the operating costs. The buildings that are closed by not enough public enrollment. Basically a private school subsidized 100% by public dollars.
One particular school actually had enough money last year to do out and buy a fully operational camp in kananaskis last year for its students to use....

The entire system is to subsidize private schools (the voucher system was specifically designed to subsidize private religious schools) with public funding.

Like any crony capitalist setup, it's easy to claim to be a more efficient business when you have the capital costs taken care of, and your operational costs subsidized by the government.

But sprawl and poor planning are the cause for the school efficiency problem. Needing to keep building new schools because younger populations have to keep moving to the periphery and the previously built schools face low enrollment is one of the more obvious effects. But that's a different matter. But the voucher and charter system is built on rent seeking, yet supposed capitalists just eat it up.

[Buster]

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The entire system is to subsidize private schools (the voucher system was specifically designed to subsidize private religious schools) with public funding.

Like any crony capitalist setup, it's easy to claim to be a more efficient business when you have the capital costs taken care of, and your operational costs subsidized by the government.

But sprawl and poor planning are the cause for the school efficiency problem. Needing to keep building new schools because younger populations have to keep moving to the periphery and the previously built schools face low enrollment is one of the more obvious effects. But that's a different matter. But the voucher and charter system is built on rent seeking, yet supposed capitalists just eat it up.

crony capitalists aren't capitalists.

[killramos]

It certainly would be an improvement if the concept of publicly funding education was removed altogether.

Publicly funding superior private supplied services is just the next best thing.

Publicly funded government education is the worst of all options.

[kertejud2]

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It certainly would be an improvement if the concept of publicly funding education was removed altogether.

Publicly funding superior private supplied services is just the next best thing.

Crony capitalists love their useful idiots.

[ExtraSlow]

You use phrases as if they are really effective insults, but I don't understand them. Maybe that's a me problem.

The demographic issues of younger families all living away from existing infrastructure is a real one. I don't have a broad solution, but I personally liked the idea of living near schools, so I bought my housing near existing schools in the inner city.