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Thread: Switching job roles within a large company

  1. #21
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    Im gona go with the other side of the opinion here.

    I dont think you should change roles. Shadow, do a couple day secondment. Sure.

    This is how I see it.
    When I was managing a few of my family business a few years ago, things go to shit sometimes. Im not concerned about fluff. I need shit fixed as things cost me money and that has a massive knock on effect in terms of customers, stock, wages etc. I need the right guy that I can turn to and know things will get done.

    You are incident management. Lets cut the bullshit. When things go Pete Tong. You get shit done and you get it done good.
    I hate to say this, but there are not many people that can keep their cool and do that. Let me tell you. That person is soo fucking hard to find.

    Regarding the new role. Sales is sales regardless how it is garnished.
    In my previous roles(sales and non sales) they banked a lot on my non sales experience/knowledge. I had practical applied knowledge of figuring out shit when things fucked up. When things went bad, I was the guy they turned to (sometimes it was because it was really my fuckup, they just did not know that). Then I was applying this knowledge so things did not go bad again. Overtime that frame of reference/knowledge base gets bigger. You have a bigger dataset to pull from when things go to shit. You get really good at it.

    This knowledge can be applied to sales, marking whatever bollocks you want to call it. Why keep it this when you can use this knowledge to fix other peoples shit?
    Hence the sales marketing aspect comes in. They are using you ability to fix shit and apply it to fixing other peoples shit. More moola can be made. Cha ching $$$

    Just as I said above sales is sales. The principles are the same. My old manager did the same thing. Twinkle in his eye, picked me up in his sports car, fed me lunch etc to convince me to come on board.
    Before you know it im fixing peoples shit in desperate times. Overtime you can look at other people shit.. hell you can smell it a mile away and already know the solution. Thats a hard skill to find. I tried to find a replacement for myself, Where the hell do you begin? So be wary of that song and dance. Ive turned down 4 job offers.

    I just started a job that is related to a job I did back in 2007. Its taken me 12 years to start again. 12 fucking years in lost career progression, money and shit I will never get back.
    Ive taken a paycut for this role, my new manger and new senior manager were surprised. Let me tell you I am not moving. I have missed out on so many life events due to work not being stable. Hell I posted another thread on flight tickets. I could not book a early flight to see my parents because of job unstability. Now im paying double for it.
    It sounds so simple but that boring go to work job that is stable is hard to find. Ive been fighting 12 years just to get back there.

    One last story. I had a client back in 2013. He had a boring stable job at the U of C. He was the guy in IT people turned too. Pay was decent.
    People gave him the twinkle in the eye look and convinced him to come in oil and gas. More pay and his skills could be 'developed'. I advised against it.
    He now was working over 12 hours a day. He tried to bring change and expand his skills in his new role. They told him to shut up and thats not what he was there for.
    He came into the branch after three months on the job and his face was red and had a long look in his eyes. Grass was not greener.

    Boring job stability is so underated and unappreciated. That shit is gold.
    You are also getting older. You body will not function the same in terms of health. I am feeing it as well. My health suffered because of these stupid job roles.
    A large number of people are out of work. Shit is bad out there. Like really bad.

    You are in a postion where you are very valuable to the company(and Beyond.ca in helping peasants like me move shit). Don't get ahead of yourself.

    Go to work and come home. Spend time with Baygirl. Life is good.
    Other people (many of my clients) would kill to be in your current position.

    Fuck. I need to go to bed.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    Im gona go with the other side of the opinion here.

    *SNIP*
    There is a lot of truth to what you are saying. And I appreciate the opposite side of the coin you are presenting. It is a nice reality check and is keeping my hesitancy in my head to temper the excitement.

    I very much value my stability. I don't mind my current job at all, I quite enjoy it. But, truth be told, I should explore some options. I have been there 5 years now, and I don't wanna be like these other guys that have been there 10-12-15+ years, and my skill level has surpassed most of them. We recently has one guy leave the company entirely and move to the states to work for Amazon because he couldn't find a job internally. Most of the hiring managers looked at his 12 years of tenure in my department as a lack of motivation. I don't want to fall into that trap.

    If the job is strictly sales, I will pass on it for sure. However, if I get to design and architect solutions, I think that would be pretty interesting. With my knowledge of the network and infrastructure, I am pretty sure I could come up with some pretty solid solutions. That's kinda exciting.

    But I also have the fear of the unknown to keep me in line. I know what I have is fairly solid. But, the money I am making is worse ever year as any pay increases I am getting are not keeping with inflation. The only way I am going to get ahead is to switch roles. I am not in a position that I can take a job at a rate less than I am making now, that's for sure.

    I am going to check it out. If I am offered the job, I am going to be in for some soul searching, that's for sure. If I am going to take it, I am going to make sure that I can guarantee some sort of contract that will provide me some security and opportunity for growth.

    I don't know how it is going to play out, but, like I said, my manager knows what is going on. If I am really valued there, he should be able to cut the red tape and get me some needed compensation.
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  3. #23
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    spikerS, if you're in a bargaining unit position then forget about your boss cutting through the red tape and getting you some additional needed compensation. Since I worked for the same company for quite a few years I can tell you that the only way you can get into a position that'll pay more is find a BU job that pays more (I finished my career there in the highest paying BU position) or move into a non-BU position (management, sales, IT). But do know that if you move into a non-BU position then be prepared to become a yes man, rock the boat too much in that world and you'll be packing your shit out in a cardboard box.

    Problem is that TELUS is farming out just about everything, even the top level BU positions are seeing their work being farmed out (inside and outside plant engineering) - inside plant engineering sounds like it'd be a good fit for you but it's kind of an old boy's club where the people in that position have come out of network installation positions, I was the first exception to that informal rule.

    Tough call to make with respect to your career what with a young family, mortgage and all and especially so in these current economic times. I spent 26.5 years there with the last 7 being in inside plant engineering and that was the biggest leap of faith I ever took in resigning from that company. My family might have been a bit older than yours and I was most likely a bit older than you (I was mid 40's) at the time but still, it was a huge leap into the unknown.

    Your situation at work is different than mine though, I loved my work, my boss and my crew but had come to hate the company - the red tape I had to deal with on a daily basis was just getting me into a deeper funk every day that my family noticed.

    You, on the other hand, don't sound like you're fed up with TELUS which ties your hands in a different way. Do you remain where you are where you feel you might be wasting your abilities more and more as time goes by or do you move elsewhere - the problem is is how easy is it to move elsewhere in that company now?

    Career stagnation is something that some people can't handle while others have no issue with doing the same job for 35 years, I was of the former ilk. You sound like you're arrived at a major crossroad in your career so you need to do some deep thinking and ask yourself, will I be happy doing what I currently am for another 5 or 10 or more years. PM me if you'd like to meet and have a coffee, baygirl too as my wife was ultimately the one who asked me the right question that forced my hand so to speak.
    Ciao, beyond.

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    I'm going to be one of the people who say be very careful in what you do and moving within a company may not always end up being where or what you thought it could be.

    My previous employment I started out as a simple IMAC technician and they realized very quickly that it was not a role that I was going to be good at for a long term period so they started pushing me to become a Deskside Technician handling more difficult and in person type situations.

    I decided after about 1.5 years to move into this role and it was a good move but I realized really quickly how the role while different just had more "management" issues that I didn't agree with and made my time in the role less enjoyable than it could have been.

    After about 1.5 years of being in that role the opportunity arose to move into a more senior L3 role and again I took it as like a lot of people you want to move up in a company to get more pay and more experience. After being in the role for about a week a couple of things happened for me that made me REALLY realize it was not going to be a role I enjoyed due to all the micro managing of us and the little things going on... As an example they were asking the L3 team to create documentation on the various ports on the back of computers and create cheat sheets for the Deskside team so they knew how to recognize a "usb" or "vga" port... I'm 100% not kidding.

    Now a side to all of this is that in all the years I was working through these roles one of the things they had me do was backfill for the IMAC team lead if they weren't around and needed to go on vacation and such. This was a role that I actually enjoyed a lot and always said if there was an opportunity that I would apply and see if I can get it. Well it so happened that after about 1 week of being a L3 technician the role opened up and I applied and I got the role.

    After I moved in to the IMAC Team Lead role let me tell you... I immediately regretted my choice.. not because I didn't want to become a lead or didn't enjoy it... it was all the answering to people that was so exhausting that it actually started to affect my health and I was needing to take time off.

    After about 1 year and 5 months of that it was affecting me so bad that I talked to my manager about it and they tried to find something for me in the company but nothing was available for me and I was eventually laid off and got severance.

    I think the key to remember is that if you want to move within a company ensure it is right for you not for them and that you have a escape route ready if needed. When you've worked at a place for more than 5 years its because you are either happy with what your doing or your there because its a job and it makes ends meet.

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    I'm on the side of not doing it.Mainly for the same reasons as Tonytiger55. I've been in my career for 26 years now and I am always being told to change from the design side to the sales side. I won't do it. The roller-coaster ride that sales is in financial terms turns me right off. On another note, I am working on Telus's space in Sky. If it is indicative of the company then I would say, hold on because there is a lot more belt tightening coming the company's way.
    "if you disagree with my views are cannot adequately my criticism then ignore my posts." - Nusc

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    I have nothing to contribute @spikerS but this thread has been fascinating to read from all aspects of life.

    Just want to say thanks for the insight, and best of luck, my dude!


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The benefit of masks is not known at this time. But we do know it is some non-trivial amount more than zero.

    We also know that the cost of mask use is, essentially, zero.

    So the cost:benefit of mask use is approaching infinity. I'll take that every time. And every time I see someone without a mask, I think they are stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikerS View Post
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    If the job is strictly sales, I will pass on it for sure. However, if I get to design and architect solutions, I think that would be pretty interesting. With my knowledge of the network and infrastructure, I am pretty sure I could come up with some pretty solid solutions. That's kinda exciting.
    My advice for such role is make sure you catch sales guys' BS early on. They tends to over-promise and under/can't deliver. Understanding the tools/products/services you rep, sometimes your hands will be tied even if there is a better solution is out there that your company doesn't want to push.

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    I can speak about this from a client/customer base view point, regarding Telus Business solutions.

    They are making a fucking killing on 'managed' (ie. cheap rental crap) IT hardware and MSP programs for the corps downtown - to say nothing about the insanely inflated ISP costs in the core.

    A 200$ UPS unit on the floor for eg. is being rented out to a client for 100$ a month. A 10 year old Palo Alto FW is pulling 400$ a month.

    However this is the norm - and the regional corp sales reps from Telus that I have dealt with a) know little to nothing about the equipment b) are unable to form a proper understanding of the interlink between the components.

    An actual IT guy in sales for Telus would be a nice change for them. Note that you would also be HEAVILY relied upon within that dept. as you are 'one of them' as opposed to the IT nerds.

    Your question is, in sales - can I sell this shit to a client who a) doesn't need it b) will need to pay to understand/work it/use ?

    If you cant, sales is not for you. I was never able to push things on clients they dont need.
    Last edited by revelations; 11-22-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  9. #29
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    Yeah, I imagine that will probably be one of the hangups for me. My morals will have a pretty hard time selling or engineering a solution for a client that I know adds nothing of value for them. I am too honest to do something like that. However, I have gone over a few scenarios that a colleague sent me, and I was able to design a pretty much foolproof solution that with the exception of a nuclear strike, a massive EMP, or a city-wide blackout AND meteor knocking out the batteries and back up gens, they would pretty much guarantee 100% uptime. They seemed pretty impressed with that. Thankfully the solution I came up with I only presented at a high level without telling them how to actually implement it. Kept that ace for myself. They seem excited about it. Gonna talk with them more next week.
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  10. #30
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    If this is a sales role, I think it would be financially prudent to find out EXACTLY how the compensation plan works. Will your base salary be the same as what you are getting now plus a commission/bonus or will you be taking a lower base salary with the expectation that you can earn significantly more on the upside. I've been in sales for over 20 years and have seen a lot of different comp plans. Some good and some are terrible. I've also seen people transfer into sales and make less money than they did in other roles within the company. Having said that, I've also seen people move into sales and double/triple their earnings.

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    I've worked at a few large companies, and am with one now and am changing roles. Changing roles is almost expected for people who want to move up or to improve their situation. If you're excited but cautious...I think you'll be fine making the change. Expect to have a hard time for 4-6 months as things will be very different, but it will usually pan out if you stay on it and are showing up everyday. I'm in sales/solutions and would be happy to bounce ideas around with you if you'd like. I think you can follow your gut in this case as you've been with the company long enough to know how it operates. Sounds like a good opportunity! If it is a sales role, make sure you understand your metrics and compensation model. Let me know if you want to chat through any scenarios. Good luck!
    freshprince
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikerS View Post
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    Yeah, I imagine that will probably be one of the hangups for me. My morals will have a pretty hard time selling or engineering a solution for a client that I know adds nothing of value for them. I am too honest to do something like that. .....
    That is exactly what makes a great. and successful, salesperson. People (and companies) who focus on selling for the sake of selling never last long. Long term success comes from helping clients solve THEIR problems...not convincing them to buy your company's latest gadget or offering. Clients see through that pretty quick and will dismiss you with haste.
    freshprince
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    Quote Originally Posted by freshprince1 View Post
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    That is exactly what makes a great. and successful, salesperson. People (and companies) who focus on selling for the sake of selling never last long. Long term success comes from helping clients solve THEIR problems...not convincing them to buy your company's latest gadget or offering. Clients see through that pretty quick and will dismiss you with haste.
    Thats not true with the major companies - like TELUS in this case. They upsell needless shit all the fucking time and charge up the ass for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
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    Thats not true with the major companies - like TELUS in this case. They upsell needless shit all the fucking time and charge up the ass for it.
    I think we're agreeing here. Forcing the sale for the sake of the sale is what rubs people the wrong way...and I think that's what you're saying Telus does - and I agree. A good salesperson tries to help their client solve the client's problems, thereby bringing value. Forcing a sale is what makes a person or company come across greasy and manipulative.
    freshprince
    -Jan 2006-

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