UCP supporters why you so silent?

[04Terminator]

Albertan's credit rating lowers due to continued reliance on oil.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ting-1.5383294

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Albertan's credit rating lowers due to continued reliance on oil.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ting-1.5383294

Put the rest of the sentence in, cherry-picker:

The downgrade, the agency states, reflects Moody's "opinion of a structural weakness in the provincial economy that remains concentrated and dependent on non-renewable resources … and remains pressured by a lack of sufficient pipeline capacity to transport oil efficiently with no near-term expectation of a significant rebound in oil-related investments."

[pheoxs]

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Put the rest of the sentence in, cherry-picker:

The downgrade, the agency states, reflects Moody's "opinion of a structural weakness in the provincial economy that remains concentrated and dependent on non-renewable resources … and remains pressured by a lack of sufficient pipeline capacity to transport oil efficiently with no near-term expectation of a significant rebound in oil-related investments."

It also talks about cutting our revenue via tax cuts too.

The Official Opposition fired back, pointing to factors in Moody's rating such as the statement that the province's cut to corporate income tax rates and the elimination of the carbon tax will put pressure on revenues, and that the province's debt burden will be stabilizing at a higher burden than forecasted.

Also interesting tidbit. Wonder if ATB being downgraded fill affect investments in smaller startups. I know ATB tries to push their incubator program really hard.

Moody's also downgraded the long-term debt ratings of the Alberta Capital Finance Authority and the long-term issuer rating of ATB Financial to Aa2 from Aa1.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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.....

Yes, it isn't just ONE narrative was the point.

[04Terminator]

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Teacher salaries are public information.

https://cbe.ab.ca/about-us/budget-an...isclosure.aspx

There's 2 lines there for teachers:

Attachment 88476

I believe the first line is base teachers, and 2nd line are teachers that have various allowances.

Based on my teacher friends, they do get paid half decent, it's roughly 5 years FTE grind to hit 6 figure if you can tack on any allowances, with the max $140k salaries being principals at the top of the grid if my above assumption is correct.

Teacher pay grid is a 10 year track. Salary increases yearly. Starting salary is 3 tiered, 59k, 62k, 66k depending on years of university education (4,5 or 6). And maxes out at year 10 at 94, 97, 101k respectively.

At year 6 it is 80, 83, 87k

There is no fast track. If you actually had teacher friends, you would know this. According to our friend who actually is a teacher.

[killramos]

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Teacher salaries are public information.

https://cbe.ab.ca/about-us/budget-an...isclosure.aspx

There's 2 lines there for teachers:

Attachment 88476

I believe the first line is base teachers, and 2nd line are teachers that have various allowances.

Based on my teacher friends, they do get paid half decent, it's roughly 5 years FTE grind to hit 6 figure if you can tack on any allowances, with the max $140k salaries being principals at the top of the grid if my above assumption is correct.

You also get on a different pay grid based on how many years of undergrad you have. The grids are 4,5,6 years of undergrad education. I don’t think you can top out over 100k/yr with a 4 or 5 year teaching degree, but the 6’s definitely can. 4 year teaching degrees used to be way more common hence a lot stuck just under 100k

Allowances for being a curriculum leader or something like that are on top of grid pay.

[04Terminator]

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Teacher pay grid is a 10 year track. Salary increases yearly. Starting salary is 3 tiered, 59k, 62k, 66k depending on years of university education (4,5 or 6). And maxes out at year 10 at 94, 97, 101k respectively.

At year 6 it is 80, 83, 87k

There is no fast track. If you actually had teacher friends, you would know this. According to our friend who actually is a teacher.

One clarification. If you are a 4 year teacher, you can't just go take a couple years of classes, it has to culminate in something, hence why she says quite a few teachers pursue a master's degree.

[R-Audi]

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3 to 4 months off lol?? Being married to a teacher I can tell you it's more like 4 weeks. And my wife regularly works 12 hour days and weekends for no extra pay. But hey - you can too. Just need that 4 year degree and 10+ years of experience to make that 90k/year.

Not sure where your partner works, but my friends that are teachers do get 3 months off, plus the same extended holidays the kids get. (Maybe minus a day or two of paperwork) In any job Ive ever worked there was always a bit of overtime and no extra pay, it was just expected that you had to put in the extra effort.. for a similar level of education and rate of pay as you mention above.. only difference being that pay was for working an entire 12 month period.

[rage2]

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Teacher pay grid is a 10 year track. Salary increases yearly. Starting salary is 3 tiered, 59k, 62k, 66k depending on years of university education (4,5 or 6). And maxes out at year 10 at 94, 97, 101k respectively.

At year 6 it is 80, 83, 87k

There is no fast track. If you actually had teacher friends, you would know this. According to our friend who actually is a teacher.

Read carefully what I said. You hit 100k after 5 years if you can earn some of the additional allowances out there. If your friend is a basic bitch of a teacher, then you're right, they won't hit 6 figures at year 6 and will be at the mercy of the grid.

[04Terminator]

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Read carefully what I said. You hit 100k after 5 years if you can earn some of the additional allowances out there. If your friend is a basic bitch of a teacher, then you're right, they won't hit 6 figures at year 6 and will be at the mercy of the grid.

Yes, "basic bitch", like most teachers in the province are. They don't just go handing out "allowances" all willy nilly, nor do many schools have budgets for a Behaviourist.

The allowance for assistant principal is $17k, you don't get that at year 5. Allowance for a Principal is $25k for a staff of 20, and $45k whens staff is over 60. You also don't get the Principal position as a 5 year. lol.

It is highly dishonest of people here who have no clue, downplaying the job, and overstating the potential and commonality of higher wages.

[The Cosworth]

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Read carefully what I said. You hit 100k after 5 years if you can earn some of the additional allowances out there. If your friend is a basic bitch of a teacher, then you're right, they won't hit 6 figures at year 6 and will be at the mercy of the grid.

Edit: Sorry I didn't realize there was a PDF. Those allowances are just so that a teacher with a B.Ed is still paid as a teacher PLUS gets their pay for being an administrator. No 'normal' teacher gets these. Teaching a class, being a learning coach, etc all is just you on the scale. The rest of what everyone said is right. You can't jump steps and you don't get time when on mat leave or sub'ing. My wife is a Masters educated, 6 year, started teaching in 2012 and is on Step 5 this year.

Becoming a Principal / VP (as terminator said) you need a 2nd masters degree again in administration, and I think you need to be topped out AND a part of the administration mentoring plan. It sucks frankly. My Aunt is a principal in CBE, she just became one in the last 4-5 years? She had well over 30 years of teaching beforehand. So no you can't be a 26 year old principal.

[asp integra]

Going back to finding places to cut $$ vs letting teachers go, I read something about rent the CBE was paying on offices/buildings that are not and have not been in use for some time. That alone would give them the $$ they need to pay thier teachers.

At the same time, this would be a perfect time to let teachers go who abuse the system, are terrible teachers etc. My wife has seen first hand teachers she has worked with who over an entire calendar school year have never worked 5 days in a row, taken sick leave etc. Really the only way for a teacher to get fired is if they have an inappropriate relationship with a student. If they are a crap teacher they just get moved to another school. In the private sector if you suck at your job you get fired, you don't get multiple chances in the same company.

[The Cosworth]

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Going back to finding places to cut $$ vs letting teachers go, I read something about rent the CBE was paying on offices/buildings that are not and have not been in use for some time. That alone would give them the $$ they need to pay thier teachers.

At the same time, this would be a perfect time to let teachers go who abuse the system, are terrible teachers etc. My wife has seen first hand teachers she has worked with who over an entire calendar school year have never worked 5 days in a row, taken sick leave etc. Really the only way for a teacher to get fired is if they have an inappropriate relationship with a student. If they are a crap teacher they just get moved to another school. In the private sector if you suck at your job you get fired, you don't get multiple chances in the same company.

I know we talk CBE because it is the main one here, I do always wonder why CBE needs that big building and downtown but frankly I don't know their finances. As I commented in another thread, not all schoolboards are this 'baller'. Maybe just Calgary Catholic, CBE, and Edmonton. Rockyview is pretty lean. Rolling Hills out in strathmore is almost down right country bumpkin. These cuts might have room to the big boards to wiggle but I can guarantee you the only thing left to cut on middle and small boards are teaching staff.

[killramos]

Haha a friend of my wifes takes at least 2 weeks of sick days off a year ( we know for a fact because my wife usually subs for her ), she recently took 2 months off mental health leave because she was sad about giving her dog up for adoption. Fully paid. She was supposed to go back to work next week but the CBE thought it was so close to Christmas she should just take the rest of December off.

One time she had my wife sub for her only to show up at our place for a party that evening.

If teaching is such an obviously under appreciated underpaid overworked grind then why does UofC (just one degree granting institution in this province) have enough interest that they issue 13% of their degrees annually in education. Almost 1000 a year. More than engineering.

Hint. Because in Alberta it’s a god damn lifetime gravy train of a job for the mediocre.

[kertejud2]

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I *never* suggested they are going to close a 32M hole (~3% of a 1.2B operating budget) from just their capital plan. I gave a list of things that any responsible budget holder does before they cut FTEs, including reviewing the capital plan for projects that have an economic driver. I don't know why you picked on that 1 item, and gave me their capital plan, but at the end of the day, it's only 1 of many things they should be looking at. If the answer is "no projects in our capital plan have a driver that is to reduce operating costs", then whoever is in charge of developing projects needs to be fired, and the board who isn't questioning this also needs to be fired. That's just incompetence and people should be outraged.

The CBE capital budget isn't really economics driven, it's service driven. As much as it would make economic sense to not build new schools right now, not having adequate space for education of children is one of those things people get all antsy about. Most of the budget is in building new schools, that doesn't reduce operations cost. There are incompetent people responsible, but they're generally the sprawl-friendly councilors who have encouraged inefficient building to provide service. They could upgrade schools to handle the new students, but then they need to spend money getting students to the schools which will also increase operating costs (I can't imagine they'd get Ministerial approval to scrap service standards to allow the passing of those costs completely to parents).

But regardless, all these changes are for 2020-23 Capital Plans to try and save money for a budget made in 2019. It literally isn't something they can do to avoid cutting operating costs this year. That's why I singled it out. It isn't responsible, it's not possible. I was also going to point out that cutting maintenance costs isn't responsible either, it's what a manager who plans on leaving in a few years does because they know they won't have to deal with the results. But telling somebody in the middle of their budget they can review their future capital plan to save costs for this budget cycle is just the sign that somebody who doesn't have a clue of what's going on is trying to give them advice.

They were about 1Q through their fiscal, were in a time crunch (~1 Month) to figure a comprehensive plan to find ~3% (out of a 1.2B operating budget) for the remaining 3Q, the only thing they could come up with is cutting 300 front line FTEs??

Fuck, politics makes people crazy. I wish I could pull that kind of stunt (firing staff because I don't know my budget enough to make other cuts) and get people to support me.

Yeah, letting people go via attrition is something that never happens in the private or public sector when there's a budget crunch.

[rage2]

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Yes, "basic bitch", like most teachers in the province are. They don't just go handing out "allowances" all willy nilly, nor do many schools have budgets for a Behaviourist.

The allowance for assistant principal is $17k, you don't get that at year 5. Allowance for a Principal is $25k for a staff of 20, and $45k whens staff is over 60. You also don't get the Principal position as a 5 year. lol.

It is highly dishonest of people here who have no clue, downplaying the job, and overstating the potential and commonality of higher wages.

They don't just hand out promotions at my work either. All I'm saying is that's what the teachers I know have done. If you want to excel, there's a path to do so if you're proactive enough to look out for opportunities. If you sit on your ass and just do your job and expect to make top dollar, that's not going to happen as a teacher or anywhere else. Maybe at AHS I guess? lol

I like how you cherry picked the only 2 leadership positions that requires experience (AP with 7 years teaching and Principals with 7 years teaching + 3 years AP). All the other leadership positions are fair game if you have leadership qualities and opportunity arises. And you call me dishonest. At the end of the day, you're bitching about teachers not getting paid well enough at $80k at the lowest grid spot after 5 years. Tell that to the rest of average Canada who earns $35k per person and $80k as a family.

[kertejud2]

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Going back to finding places to cut $$ vs letting teachers go, I read something about rent the CBE was paying on offices/buildings that are not and have not been in use for some time. That alone would give them the $$ they need to pay thier teachers.

The bad lease deals are well publicized, but they aren't really available for cost savings because they're bad lease deals. Only way to save money on them would be to go back in time and not do them. They're sunk costs now.

[Buster]

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The CBE capital budget isn't really economics driven, it's service driven. As much as it would make economic sense to not build new schools right now, not having adequate space for education of children is one of those things people get all antsy about. Most of the budget is in building new schools, that doesn't reduce operations cost. There are incompetent people responsible, but they're generally the sprawl-friendly councilors who have encouraged inefficient building to provide service. They could upgrade schools to handle the new students, but then they need to spend money getting students to the schools which will also increase operating costs (I can't imagine they'd get Ministerial approval to scrap service standards to allow the passing of those costs completely to parents).

But regardless, all these changes are for 2020-23 Capital Plans to try and save money for a budget made in 2019. It literally isn't something they can do to avoid cutting operating costs this year. That's why I singled it out. It isn't responsible, it's not possible. I was also going to point out that cutting maintenance costs isn't responsible either, it's what a manager who plans on leaving in a few years does because they know they won't have to deal with the results. But telling somebody in the middle of their budget they can review their future capital plan to save costs for this budget cycle is just the sign that somebody who doesn't have a clue of what's going on is trying to give them advice.



Yeah, letting people go via attrition is something that never happens in the private or public sector when there's a budget crunch.

Over-indulging is always the same. It comes with a nasty hangover.

I'd be interested to see your proposal to manage the fiscal constraints and incompetence (to whatever degree it exists) at the CBE. I'm always dubious when people complain about others' solutions to problems without proposing an alternative solution. Most of what you do here is throw stones. I don't see you as a builder.

[ExtraSlow]

Ya know, I'm no expert on how to set "fair" salaries or total compensation for any job, but you know who is? The market. There are no shortage of smart, informed and motivated individuals who want to be teachers. The compensation is well known and understood by these people, so I guess the compensation is either "exactly right" or maybe a little higher than that. The fact that teachers are not underpaid is excellent news! It also means there doesn't need to be a rush to raise their salaries, which again, is GREAT NEWS!!

[Buster]

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That doesn't include pd days, catchup days, planning days etc. Teachers work a lot more than you think and there is no overtime.

Most teachers also don't instruct for all of those 180 days.

Teaching is a cushy ass job. Why aren't the PD days all stacked in the summer?

What other jobs give you "catch up" time, or pay you to educate yourself. For 31% of the time!

I seriously, seriously doubt that teachers put in more OT than the average Canadian out there.

I bet if we didn't pay teachers full time to only instruct half time we might be able to find some budget fixes.

- - - Updated - - -

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Ya know, I'm no expert on how to set "fair" salaries or total compensation for any job, but you know who is? The market. There are no shortage of smart, informed and motivated individuals who want to be teachers. The compensation is well known and understood by these people, so I guess the compensation is either "exactly right" or maybe a little higher than that. The fact that teachers are not underpaid is excellent news! It also means there doesn't need to be a rush to raise their salaries, which again, is GREAT NEWS!!

Teachers have convinced themselves and the public that if teaching is exposed to market forces that it would be bad for Little Sally and Little Billy. It's nonsense of course, but welcome to the public service winning the propaganda battle.