UCP supporters why you so silent?

[pheoxs]

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I believe that's what's wrong with globalization. All businesses are looking for handouts to be located in a jurisdiction. LA got all the talents but incentives is why most movies are shot in TO/Vancouver and of course Marvel town, Atlanta.

It's not about low taxes and talents any more, it's about what else you are willing to give to keep an industry around.

Pretty much this. Look at incubators, they basically take risk to take in companies that have potential. Give them handouts in the form of free or discounted services in exchange for part of the company. Most fail but the ones that succeed pay back $$$ and the incubator wins overall.

The same could be said for the government. Subsidize industries that have promise and new technologies and bet on them becoming viable. That creates more jobs and brings in more revenue which eventually makes its way back to the province. Even if it's not a 100% return if it creates jobs then that still benefits the economy and keeps people working until other industries pick up.

Want a specific example? Look at the company called Attabotics. They are a robotics company here in Calgary and they started in 2015. They had a simple idea that could heavily improve warehouse storage to make things almost 10:1 more compact that other your typical amazon warehouse. They had a promising idea and a great market, Alberta innovates stepped in and provided funding so they could build a proof of concept system to pitch to investors.

Now? They employ 200+ people in Calgary, many of which are high skilled tech jobs in a growing robotics industry and the company is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. That few million from Alberta innovates helped turn an idea into hundreds of jobs and a ton of investment.

[Buster]

Governments are not good at picking winners and losers and should not be doing so.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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Pretty much this. Look at incubators, they basically take risk to take in companies that have potential. Give them handouts in the form of free or discounted services in exchange for part of the company. Most fail but the ones that succeed pay back $$$ and the incubator wins overall.

The same could be said for the government. Subsidize industries that have promise and new technologies and bet on them becoming viable. That creates more jobs and brings in more revenue which eventually makes its way back to the province. Even if it's not a 100% return if it creates jobs then that still benefits the economy and keeps people working until other industries pick up.

Want a specific example? Look at the company called Attabotics. They are a robotics company here in Calgary and they started in 2015. They had a simple idea that could heavily improve warehouse storage to make things almost 10:1 more compact that other your typical amazon warehouse. They had a promising idea and a great market, Alberta innovates stepped in and provided funding so they could build a proof of concept system to pitch to investors.

Now? They employ 200+ people in Calgary, many of which are high skilled tech jobs in a growing robotics industry and the company is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. That few million from Alberta innovates helped turn an idea into hundreds of jobs and a ton of investment.

I have a friend who works for Attabotics and I honestly don’t know how he managed to get a job there. He didn’t even finish high school and has basically worked retail and labour jobs since we finished highschool. I once got him a job and he just didn’t show up on day two and didn’t say anything because “it wasn’t for him”.

[Misterman]

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If you can "afford" to take time to teach your child one-on-one, I would say this says more about your own worth and productivity than it does about the value of teachers...

A highly productive member of society has a number of better cost/benefit options in educating their child(ren) than doing it on their own time, not all of which involve jamming them into a 35:1 ratio, lowest-common-denominator sausage factory.

Your argument sucks.

It's not always about a cost/benefit analysis. Some people actually care about their children believe it or not. But you're right, full time home education would be a time burden. So my children will go to public school where they will get a lesser education, and I'll fill the gaps at home with my free time.

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I'd call teaching 1,000,000 students with one teacher - efficient. That's basically what the internet is, the single most powerful entity of learning ever conceived.

1:1 teaching is what will cause the downfall of civilization. That being said, when I took computer programming there were only three students.

Now we are talking. The technology has existed for quite some time. If we want to really cut costs and waste, imagine how much education budget could be slashed by dumping all this meaningless real estate tied up in a physical school location.

[speedog]

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Governments are not good at picking winners and losers and should not be doing so.

There's a certain government that signed all the documents today to get the shovels into the ground for an event center. Not sure if a winner or loser but I guess one could look at it as a subsidy that'll create more jobs in addition to the ones already there.

[Buster]

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There's a certain government that signed all the documents today to get the shovels into the ground for an event center. Not sure if a winner or loser but I guess one could look at it as a subsidy that'll create more jobs in addition to the ones already there.

Our government handing $300 million of taxpayer dollars to billionaires is exactly why we shouldn't be letter governments pick winners and losers.

[davidI]

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Pretty much this. Look at incubators, they basically take risk to take in companies that have potential. Give them handouts in the form of free or discounted services in exchange for part of the company. Most fail but the ones that succeed pay back $$$ and the incubator wins overall.

The same could be said for the government. Subsidize industries that have promise and new technologies and bet on them becoming viable. That creates more jobs and brings in more revenue which eventually makes its way back to the province. Even if it's not a 100% return if it creates jobs then that still benefits the economy and keeps people working until other industries pick up.

Want a specific example? Look at the company called Attabotics. They are a robotics company here in Calgary and they started in 2015. They had a simple idea that could heavily improve warehouse storage to make things almost 10:1 more compact that other your typical amazon warehouse. They had a promising idea and a great market, Alberta innovates stepped in and provided funding so they could build a proof of concept system to pitch to investors.

Now? They employ 200+ people in Calgary, many of which are high skilled tech jobs in a growing robotics industry and the company is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. That few million from Alberta innovates helped turn an idea into hundreds of jobs and a ton of investment.

I'd like to see the overall economics for this. I'd be surprised if the corporate and income taxes derived from these "incentives" came even close to breaking even.

Incubators do well because they have equity in the companies.

[kobe tai]

looks like things are starting to turn around lol

[pheoxs]

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looks like things are starting to turn around lol

Is that even a real tweet? It's not on his twitter. Also hasn't Kenny literally done nothing for transmountain? Like, it was going ahead whether he got voted in or not.

[kobe tai]

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Is that even a real tweet? It's not on his twitter. Also hasn't Kenny literally done nothing for transmountain? Like, it was going ahead whether he got voted in or not.

it's a joke. In other new Alberta lost 18,200 jobs last month.

[pheoxs]

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it's a joke. In other new Alberta lost 18,200 jobs last month.

Ahh. I've gotten so used to all the batshit trump tweets thinking they can't be real I just assumed he might've taken it down

[A790]

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Diversification is always a fascinating goal. What % of Alberta’s economy would you deem to be an appropriate target for the Oil & Gas industry?

Because it is currently ~26%, in terms of GDP, probably less than you thought it was.

Having any one sector responsible for more than a quarter of our GDP is irresponsible. Would you allow your investment portfolio to be that focused on a single asset class or industry?

There's nothing wrong with a strong and thriving O&G sector. There is something wrong when that's our sole focus.

[04Terminator]

I loved how Kenny attacked the Moody report as buying into the consoiracy emanating from Europe to landlock our oil. Haha.

I thought last month it was an American Conspiracy?

[04Terminator]

It's a question of survival.
The whole world is against us .
It's a struggle for our very survival!
Greta!
George Soros!

Haha. Good lord. Are there any grown ups left in Alberta?

[Buster]

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Having any one sector responsible for more than a quarter of our GDP is irresponsible. Would you allow your investment portfolio to be that focused on a single asset class or industry?

There's nothing wrong with a strong and thriving O&G sector. There is something wrong when that's our sole focus.

irresponsible of who?

[kobe tai]

Shit - Randy's on a roll

[S-FLY]

TLDR. To preface the thread, does the OP and 04Terminator (or a relative) work in the education or medical industry?

[04Terminator]

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TLDR. To preface the thread, does the OP and 04Terminator (or a relative) work in the education or medical industry?

I don't. I was a resource and royalty auditor for the province for a very long time, then moved to administration, soon moving to a project lead position with Skanska in Seattle where I was consulting off and on for a long time.

It's a dirty industry, hence my move into sustainable construction.

But Education and Health are no brainers. We statistically KNOW they pay for themselves and then some over the long term, sad they are both chronically underfunded, and that people believe this is good. They are both cornerstones to productivity and democracy itself.

[S-FLY]

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But Education and Health are no brainers. We statistically KNOW they pay for themselves and then some over the long term, sad they are both chronically underfunded, and that people believe this is good.

I don't really want to reply, in fear that we may go down the rabbit hole here, so I'll just stop after this.

I agree with parts of the quote above, but the gov't isn't taking Education or Health care to zero.

I came from a have-not province, and there were ups and downs with the budget when I was in grade school. We definitely had class sizes fluctuate and spent time in portable classrooms. If the province went into more of a deficit back then, I don't think it would have changed anything for me or many of my peers. In the end, myself and a lot of friends moved away from that province, so investing anything extra surely would not have paid for itself, even if we had stayed.

It's all a balancing act. My parents were small business owners, so I learned the value of a dollar when I was quite young. When sales were down during the bad times, I was wearing hand-me-down clothes. I didn't like it, but I understood why.

[tonytiger55]

To answer @MalibuStacy OP’s original question.

No. I am not surprised. If anything I am disappointed the cuts did not go further.
In relation to how it effects myself and impact of children (I don’t have kids). I will give my alternative perspective.

One of the main issues with the cuts is understanding the frame of reference one is using for comparison?

In the British Civil Service. The pay is shit. It is well known if you want to make money. Go to the private sector. On the flip side of the public sector. You get a decent pension, a nice warm chicken pot pie when you retire. Nothing to brag about. You won’t go hungry, but you will still shop at the equivalent of Walmart and buy white label brands from time to time. On the plus side you get job stability and a shit ton of holidays.
That’s the trade off. You can’t have both.

Since the AHS and teachers have come in this discussion. I’l throw some real examples of how I see it.

In the UK, a salary for a teacher with conversion is around $43k-$60k CAN. My own experience in the UK public sector, its on the lower side of the that scale (i.e. you are earning $43-$50k). If you don’t work for a lower salary, someone else will. $43k in London is shit. SalesTax (VAT)is at 20%. People can just about rent let alone buy in London. Teachers drive shitty old cars and nurses have it waay worse.

To put that number in realty. My ex gf in London was a teacher. Spoke three languages, masters degree, specialty in children with learning difficulties. Seven years of experience. She struggled to get a job. She lives in a small flat in London with her mother and brother.

In Calgary your starting wage for secondary school teachers seems to be around $50k, average is $74k.
My other ex gf here was a teacher on $100k, masters degree over ten years in the system.
She lived downtown in her new condo, drove a nice new WRX (not leased) and really does not have to worry when it comes to paying for things. Not only that, when she retires, she gets a nice chicken pot pie of a pension. She does work a bit longer as others have mentioned. Buts part and parcel for her job. She gets summer holidays. Jolly nice eh?

My other friend was a nurse here. Her and her nurse friends owned their own HOUSE’s. We are not talking about a condo/flat in a shitty part of town or a shitty small building. A fucking house. Two car garage, basement, granite countertops, the works. Nice new car too.
This is something only a nurse can dream about in the UK.

I also have friends in AHS that work higher up. Even they admit the amount of wastage is insane.
It seems like decisions can’t be made and there is no ownership of projects or understanding of the costs. Its like the money just comes from a magic money tree.

Back to the education part briefly. There were deep cuts to UK education in the 90’s.
Lower income communities bore the brunt of these. Asian and East Indian by ethnicity are some of the most successful despite these. Why? Its falls into three areas.
1. We beat out kids.
2. Good home cooked food, made at home from scratch (we are not talking mac and cheese bollocks). You need to fuel the brain and teach good habits.
3. Private tuition.

So if you are not doing two of the three I have listed above and expect state education will do everything for your kids to be successful then your doing it wrong.
Also those kids who have gotten 2 of the three I have listed above will face less completion as they get older. Why..? the others have relied on getting things on a plate from the state. The cuts are win win for them. Less smart people to compete with as they get older.
Nothing is a given in this world.

Perspective: Alberta has a population of about 4.3 million. London (A city) is just over 9 million.
So you have situation where people are paid overly well in the public sector here and with a nice chicken pot pie. That’s not sustainable with the low population(one that is aging too), declining tax base low foreign investment.

I will go further. The NDP, in particular Rachel Notely is a very shrewd politician that makes decisions that are three positions ahead in mind. I’l give her that.
She has politically engineered situations for her career gain and at the expense of Albertans and her NDP voter base.

People loosing jobs, cuts being made? Look who is flapping her wings and shouting, ‘Look.. look, evil UCP!! Come into my bosom of idealism, you are a poor forsaken child, a victim and come hither and away from the evils of the real world.’
It gives her a mandate to be in office, collect her fat salary and retire with a chicken pot pie.

She had a opportunity to take care of things when she came into office with a majority. Sure you need to stable things first and borrow. She knew she would not be there for long. She had planned this. Rather than deal with the debit…she cranked it up to eye watering levels. Now that she is in opposition. Any move the UCP makes to address this debit and make cuts,… look who is going to flap their wings the hardest in protest? Its all part of her plan and her career. All NDP has to do is set the narrative for the cuts. NDP supporters will buy into it without questioning. That’s the problem.
Its because they think on idealism (that been demonstrated in this thread) rather than realism.

Rather the teachers or AHS workers attacking the UCP. A more prudent approach would be to see how the funds are managed by the institutions that are given the budget. Follow the paper trail and the decision making process backwards. They should be questioning the higher ups. A lot of people profited in the public sector and got really comfortable with the large pot of gold they got. If people are so dam pissed off about the cuts and it effects on the lower end. Then have the audacity to question the people in those institutions who planned how to spend the money, budget, salaries etc.

So when I spoke with my friend (a NDP fanatic) about how healthcare would effect me. She finds my viewpoint fascinating, as I earn way less than her, done more shitty jobs.. I gave this answer.
If cuts are made in health care. My health care is still good, because in the UK, the healthcare its shit. AHS workers think NHS(UK) health care is good. So if cuts are made and it becomes the standard like the UK. Then technically im still im getting good healthcare.
Education now is better. We have access to so much via google, khan academy, free lectures from leading universities online etc.. It can’t get worse than it was in west London in the 90’s.

My friend was very emotional and anti UCP. She cares passionately about her causes. I hit back which even she had to admit. ‘You care enough about these issues, but not enough to do anything about it’. She admitted I was right. She said I hit the nail on the head.
Because she knows I have gone to see my federal minister, I have gone to see my MLA, I have gone to see my city councilor and put cases together.
I have gone to round tables with Jason Kenny, local MLA’s and I have had to correct and direct them on serious issues. Not only that, legitimate concerns were brought up by people that were not addressed by the NDP. I don’t recall seeing anyone from the NDP there (maybe they were busy baking a pie or seeing what car they would like to lease next..? Who knows).

Case in point. The nonsensical argument about doctors, healthcare workers salary is garbage. Money is only one factor. People don’t go into that profession to make high money. There is no they deserve that salary. The salary is dictated by the economics and market.

Surgeons and doctors raised the issue of English certificates expiring, its one of the many barriers immigrant educated people face. How does the fuck English expire? FYI I cant get a base level job in AHS. When I have gone to upgrade. SAIT does not recognize a university degree from the UK, as they have no idea it was done in English.
Its not lack of doctors, there a lot of doctors in this province that cannot get work. Its the inability for the system to let them in and compete as it’s a cartel that looks after its own. Europe does not have this issue as bad, you have countries with multiple languages, different systems etc yet the UK can hire nurses from the Phillipines, and doctors from Bulgaria. It a bigger issue than money. The UCP are actually taking this on. We shall see if anything gets done.

A lot of waste in AHS is middle management. Its trying to do everything but achieve nothing. Front line workers get hit. They should be questioning directors.
Again..it comes down to what is one comparing to? We are in a situation where this province is hurting bad. REAL bad.

People don’t know how bad the NDP wrecked the ability to have good foreign investment to diversify the economy and create jobs. I’m engaging with businesses, developers on a plan along with politicians that will have a huge impact on creating jobs, diversification and sub business sectors (Retail, insurance, trades. banking etc). I have had to get off my arse meet with people.

I should NOT have to do this, I should not be having to meet with political community leaders to keep them in check. Its down to a lack of good opposition. If NDP bothered to deal with these issues, it takes away from the UCP as it brings them (NDP) to the center ground.
I personally would like a good NDP opposition. It keeps the UCP in line as quite frankly there are a lot of fake conservatives that are closet liberals. They only wear the blue badge as a sign of self proclaimed righteousness and to hide the laziness.
Instead the NDP not doing that and just focusing on how people would like to see the world, getting people wound up and getting votes.

So you may see a lot of banter on social network forums bitching etc. Protesting does nothing. Its just a childish hissy fit. All that is noise. Just noise, they have no clue whats actually going on.
I don’t see any of these people at the round tables, creating cases, making appointments engaging with their political leaders. That would be more effective as the cases are in writing and hold the politicians to account. It’s the lack of this that allows them to do what they want on both side of the political spectrum. UCP and NDP. Even at the city level. Shit, people bitch about the city. Only three residents went to see my city Councillor this year to try and get something done that will help people. I am one of them. Three is a piss poor number.

I don’t savor the fact that people are going to lose their jobs. That is a NDP narrative. People like to be told what to think.
I lost my job last year. Its fucking horrible.
A job is not a right. It’s a privilege.

One last point, a lot of immigrants are on salaries earning less than $40k. They have no pension. They are managing (just about) in this downturn.
Im on my 5th job since 2012.

Hence these cuts a mild in comparison to what is going on else in the world.
People here in the public sector have it really good in comparison. Dam good here. Even if they took a pay cut. They are still ahead of a lot of people.
To have both (salary) and chicken pot pie is rare. If they don’t want to work. Go to the private sector. The pie does not taste as good.

Im going grocery shopping this weekend and im gona buy a nice chicken pot pie. I encourage you all to do the same and think of me when you sit down to eat it.