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    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    To answer @MalibuStacy OP’s original question.

    No. I am not surprised. If anything I am disappointed the cuts did not go further.
    In relation to how it effects myself and impact of children (I don’t have kids). I will give my alternative perspective.

    One of the main issues with the cuts is understanding the frame of reference one is using for comparison?

    In the British Civil Service. The pay is shit. It is well known if you want to make money. Go to the private sector. On the flip side of the public sector. You get a decent pension, a nice warm chicken pot pie when you retire. Nothing to brag about. You won’t go hungry, but you will still shop at the equivalent of Walmart and buy white label brands from time to time. On the plus side you get job stability and a shit ton of holidays.
    That’s the trade off. You can’t have both.

    Since the AHS and teachers have come in this discussion. I’l throw some real examples of how I see it.

    In the UK, a salary for a teacher with conversion is around $43k-$60k CAN. My own experience in the UK public sector, its on the lower side of the that scale (i.e. you are earning $43-$50k). If you don’t work for a lower salary, someone else will. $43k in London is shit. SalesTax (VAT)is at 20%. People can just about rent let alone buy in London. Teachers drive shitty old cars and nurses have it waay worse.

    To put that number in realty. My ex gf in London was a teacher. Spoke three languages, masters degree, specialty in children with learning difficulties. Seven years of experience. She struggled to get a job. She lives in a small flat in London with her mother and brother.

    In Calgary your starting wage for secondary school teachers seems to be around $50k, average is $74k.
    My other ex gf here was a teacher on $100k, masters degree over ten years in the system.
    She lived downtown in her new condo, drove a nice new WRX (not leased) and really does not have to worry when it comes to paying for things. Not only that, when she retires, she gets a nice chicken pot pie of a pension. She does work a bit longer as others have mentioned. Buts part and parcel for her job. She gets summer holidays. Jolly nice eh?

    My other friend was a nurse here. Her and her nurse friends owned their own HOUSE’s. We are not talking about a condo/flat in a shitty part of town or a shitty small building. A fucking house. Two car garage, basement, granite countertops, the works. Nice new car too.
    This is something only a nurse can dream about in the UK.

    I also have friends in AHS that work higher up. Even they admit the amount of wastage is insane.
    It seems like decisions can’t be made and there is no ownership of projects or understanding of the costs. Its like the money just comes from a magic money tree.

    Back to the education part briefly. There were deep cuts to UK education in the 90’s.
    Lower income communities bore the brunt of these. Asian and East Indian by ethnicity are some of the most successful despite these. Why? Its falls into three areas.
    1. We beat out kids.
    2. Good home cooked food, made at home from scratch (we are not talking mac and cheese bollocks). You need to fuel the brain and teach good habits.
    3. Private tuition.

    So if you are not doing two of the three I have listed above and expect state education will do everything for your kids to be successful then your doing it wrong.
    Also those kids who have gotten 2 of the three I have listed above will face less completion as they get older. Why..? the others have relied on getting things on a plate from the state. The cuts are win win for them. Less smart people to compete with as they get older.
    Nothing is a given in this world.

    Perspective: Alberta has a population of about 4.3 million. London (A city) is just over 9 million.
    So you have situation where people are paid overly well in the public sector here and with a nice chicken pot pie. That’s not sustainable with the low population(one that is aging too), declining tax base low foreign investment.

    I will go further. The NDP, in particular Rachel Notely is a very shrewd politician that makes decisions that are three positions ahead in mind. I’l give her that.
    She has politically engineered situations for her career gain and at the expense of Albertans and her NDP voter base.

    People loosing jobs, cuts being made? Look who is flapping her wings and shouting, ‘Look.. look, evil UCP!! Come into my bosom of idealism, you are a poor forsaken child, a victim and come hither and away from the evils of the real world.’
    It gives her a mandate to be in office, collect her fat salary and retire with a chicken pot pie.

    She had a opportunity to take care of things when she came into office with a majority. Sure you need to stable things first and borrow. She knew she would not be there for long. She had planned this. Rather than deal with the debit…she cranked it up to eye watering levels. Now that she is in opposition. Any move the UCP makes to address this debit and make cuts,… look who is going to flap their wings the hardest in protest? Its all part of her plan and her career. All NDP has to do is set the narrative for the cuts. NDP supporters will buy into it without questioning. That’s the problem.
    Its because they think on idealism (that been demonstrated in this thread) rather than realism.

    Rather the teachers or AHS workers attacking the UCP. A more prudent approach would be to see how the funds are managed by the institutions that are given the budget. Follow the paper trail and the decision making process backwards. They should be questioning the higher ups. A lot of people profited in the public sector and got really comfortable with the large pot of gold they got. If people are so dam pissed off about the cuts and it effects on the lower end. Then have the audacity to question the people in those institutions who planned how to spend the money, budget, salaries etc.

    So when I spoke with my friend (a NDP fanatic) about how healthcare would effect me. She finds my viewpoint fascinating, as I earn way less than her, done more shitty jobs.. I gave this answer.
    If cuts are made in health care. My health care is still good, because in the UK, the healthcare its shit. AHS workers think NHS(UK) health care is good. So if cuts are made and it becomes the standard like the UK. Then technically im still im getting good healthcare.
    Education now is better. We have access to so much via google, khan academy, free lectures from leading universities online etc.. It can’t get worse than it was in west London in the 90’s.

    My friend was very emotional and anti UCP. She cares passionately about her causes. I hit back which even she had to admit. ‘You care enough about these issues, but not enough to do anything about it’. She admitted I was right. She said I hit the nail on the head.
    Because she knows I have gone to see my federal minister, I have gone to see my MLA, I have gone to see my city councilor and put cases together.
    I have gone to round tables with Jason Kenny, local MLA’s and I have had to correct and direct them on serious issues. Not only that, legitimate concerns were brought up by people that were not addressed by the NDP. I don’t recall seeing anyone from the NDP there (maybe they were busy baking a pie or seeing what car they would like to lease next..? Who knows).

    Case in point. The nonsensical argument about doctors, healthcare workers salary is garbage. Money is only one factor. People don’t go into that profession to make high money. There is no they deserve that salary. The salary is dictated by the economics and market.

    Surgeons and doctors raised the issue of English certificates expiring, its one of the many barriers immigrant educated people face. How does the fuck English expire? FYI I cant get a base level job in AHS. When I have gone to upgrade. SAIT does not recognize a university degree from the UK, as they have no idea it was done in English.
    Its not lack of doctors, there a lot of doctors in this province that cannot get work. Its the inability for the system to let them in and compete as it’s a cartel that looks after its own. Europe does not have this issue as bad, you have countries with multiple languages, different systems etc yet the UK can hire nurses from the Phillipines, and doctors from Bulgaria. It a bigger issue than money. The UCP are actually taking this on. We shall see if anything gets done.

    A lot of waste in AHS is middle management. Its trying to do everything but achieve nothing. Front line workers get hit. They should be questioning directors.
    Again..it comes down to what is one comparing to? We are in a situation where this province is hurting bad. REAL bad.

    People don’t know how bad the NDP wrecked the ability to have good foreign investment to diversify the economy and create jobs. I’m engaging with businesses, developers on a plan along with politicians that will have a huge impact on creating jobs, diversification and sub business sectors (Retail, insurance, trades. banking etc). I have had to get off my arse meet with people.

    I should NOT have to do this, I should not be having to meet with political community leaders to keep them in check. Its down to a lack of good opposition. If NDP bothered to deal with these issues, it takes away from the UCP as it brings them (NDP) to the center ground.
    I personally would like a good NDP opposition. It keeps the UCP in line as quite frankly there are a lot of fake conservatives that are closet liberals. They only wear the blue badge as a sign of self proclaimed righteousness and to hide the laziness.
    Instead the NDP not doing that and just focusing on how people would like to see the world, getting people wound up and getting votes.

    So you may see a lot of banter on social network forums bitching etc. Protesting does nothing. Its just a childish hissy fit. All that is noise. Just noise, they have no clue whats actually going on.
    I don’t see any of these people at the round tables, creating cases, making appointments engaging with their political leaders. That would be more effective as the cases are in writing and hold the politicians to account. It’s the lack of this that allows them to do what they want on both side of the political spectrum. UCP and NDP. Even at the city level. Shit, people bitch about the city. Only three residents went to see my city Councillor this year to try and get something done that will help people. I am one of them. Three is a piss poor number.

    I don’t savor the fact that people are going to lose their jobs. That is a NDP narrative. People like to be told what to think.
    I lost my job last year. Its fucking horrible.
    A job is not a right. It’s a privilege.

    One last point, a lot of immigrants are on salaries earning less than $40k. They have no pension. They are managing (just about) in this downturn.
    Im on my 5th job since 2012.

    Hence these cuts a mild in comparison to what is going on else in the world.
    People here in the public sector have it really good in comparison. Dam good here. Even if they took a pay cut. They are still ahead of a lot of people.
    To have both (salary) and chicken pot pie is rare. If they don’t want to work. Go to the private sector. The pie does not taste as good.

    Im going grocery shopping this weekend and im gona buy a nice chicken pot pie. I encourage you all to do the same and think of me when you sit down to eat it.

    Attachment 88527
    TLDR; UCP is doing what they need to do and the NDP put us in a bad spot....very good post.

  2. #222
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    1/1 polite British guys agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    1/1 polite British guys agree.
    Man he did type an essay but I don't see how a comparison to a healthcare system in another country (or continent actually) can in any way be used to validate his point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Having any one sector responsible for more than a quarter of our GDP is irresponsible. Would you allow your investment portfolio to be that focused on a single asset class or industry?

    There's nothing wrong with a strong and thriving O&G sector. There is something wrong when that's our sole focus.
    Well if you added some context to that query it would help. I mean if there was only one sector forecast to make a return for me, and everything else was forecasted to tank, then you're damn straight I would ride my whole portfolio on that one sector. And I'd keep my eyes peeled for emerging opportunities in other sectors. Anyone that would just sit there and allow their portfolio to tank, while watching another sector go on a run, is what I would call irresponsible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    Well if you added some context to that query it would help. I mean if there was only one sector forecast to make a return for me, and everything else was forecasted to tank, then you're damn straight I would ride my whole portfolio on that one sector. And I'd keep my eyes peeled for emerging opportunities in other sectors. Anyone that would just sit there and allow their portfolio to tank, while watching another sector go on a run, is what I would call irresponsible.
    Right. By that logic, the price of oil has declined significantly. The commodity itself is being replaced for energy generation by increasingly affordable renewables. The trend is global, and it is unlikely to change anytime soon now that renewables and storage are reaching the technological capability needed to become viable.

    The key to a "sound" investment strategy is to be diversified, so if an individual asset class or geo takes a hit, your entire portfolio doesn't go down with it. Imagine having all your eggs in the O&G basket for the past 5 years. That shit hurts (I know first hand).

    That the provincial government is killing off incentives/grants/etc. designed to draw in new industries is laughable and short-sighted. We can't be a one-trick pony, and you may argue that 26% of GDP is not one-trick, but that's not exactly an honest argument. Anything that controls 25% of your wealth will of course be given priority.

    And, in this case, its to the detriment of our populace. O&G companies are still running for the hills despite an "industry-friendly" government in power.

    I've yet to be privy to a convincing argument that our pandering to O&G is a sound decision. It's clearly become a partisan issue, and with it logic has gone out the window.

    Thank fuck almost 0 of my income comes from this province. Unlike the province, I have made a deliberate effort to source income from locations and industries that are diversified. Maybe in the end I'll be wrong and my choices will bite me in the ass, but I seriously doubt it.

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    18000 job losses in November. Worst month since the initial oil price crash.

    Way to go UCP.

    (Yes, we know that's NDP fault too) lol
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    Saw this on reddit.

    Name:  13E30542-0D52-432E-A247-F464724621FF.jpg
Views: 292
Size:  59.9 KB

    Catholic School District took a bigger hit than CBE % wise and sorted it out. Anyone know how the other school boards in Alberta are handling cuts?

    Edit I Marth’d. Catholic school cut of 11m is a smaller percentage than CBE. Equivalent % would be 14.9m cut based on % of budget compared to CBE’s 32m.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Kenney seized control of teachers pensions in order to prop up the oil industry.

    https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/play...ension-system/
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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Right. By that logic, the price of oil has declined significantly. The commodity itself is being replaced for energy generation by increasingly affordable renewables. The trend is global, and it is unlikely to change anytime soon now that renewables and storage are reaching the technological capability needed to become viable.

    The key to a "sound" investment strategy is to be diversified, so if an individual asset class or geo takes a hit, your entire portfolio doesn't go down with it. Imagine having all your eggs in the O&G basket for the past 5 years. That shit hurts (I know first hand).

    That the provincial government is killing off incentives/grants/etc. designed to draw in new industries is laughable and short-sighted. We can't be a one-trick pony, and you may argue that 26% of GDP is not one-trick, but that's not exactly an honest argument. Anything that controls 25% of your wealth will of course be given priority.

    And, in this case, its to the detriment of our populace. O&G companies are still running for the hills despite an "industry-friendly" government in power.

    I've yet to be privy to a convincing argument that our pandering to O&G is a sound decision. It's clearly become a partisan issue, and with it logic has gone out the window.

    Thank fuck almost 0 of my income comes from this province. Unlike the province, I have made a deliberate effort to source income from locations and industries that are diversified. Maybe in the end I'll be wrong and my choices will bite me in the ass, but I seriously doubt it.
    Nobody is stopping people from setting up new businesses in Alberta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 04Terminator View Post
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    Kenney seized control of teachers pensions in order to prop up the oil industry.

    https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/play...ension-system/
    Did you even read the article?

    Pension expert Keith Ambachtsheer, of the Rotman School of Business in Toronto, says he doubts the government would do that, because independent board members could resign in protest.

    “The fact that the current finance minister uses the term arm’s-length is encouraging, because it has a very specific meaning, and the very specific meaning is that as a politician, you do not interfere with the independent process.”

    He says AIMCO ought to be careful to resist the temptation of investing in Alberta’s oil industry, because if it the bottom drops out of the oil business, the last thing the province would want is a collapsing pension system.

    “It’s a slippery slope,” he said. “It’s a double jeopardy thing. That’s the best way for Albertans to understand it. If you start to put pension money into your own industries, which are at risk, that’s a fundamental misallocation.”

    I doubt Kenney would do something as reckless as investing Albertans’ pensions in the oil patch—or on a money-losing golf course, like a previous Alberta government did—but on the other hand, I don’t know why he didn’t just leave the teachers’ pensions alone in the first place, which is what he should have done.
    It’s literally an article speculating that AIMCO could suggest investing in oil, but teachers still have a say so it probably won’t happen.

    Feel free to reuse your rhetoric if it actually happens.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04Terminator View Post
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    Kenney seized control of teachers pensions in order to prop up the oil industry.

    https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/play...ension-system/
    Yup. And neither Atrf or Aimco were consulted beforehand and only found out about this reading the budget. Greasy Kenney at work,

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    Don't forget who changed the rules to limit the arms length relationship of aimco. Hint: it was notley

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmonto...e-in-aimco/amp

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    Public employees: "give the government more money because its the best at doing all the things!"

    also public employees: "dont give the government our pensions! Governments are corrupt and incompetent!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Don't forget who changed the rules to limit the arms length relationship of aimco. Hint: it was notley

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmonto...e-in-aimco/amp
    Hence why they shouldn't be handling a fund that has been managed extremely well by Atrf already. I don't know what administrative costs they are talking about saving but its probably some BS.

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    This conversation about teachers is hilariously polarizing.
    Ultracrepidarian

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobe tai View Post
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    Hence why they shouldn't be handling a fund that has been managed extremely well by Atrf already. I don't know what administrative costs they are talking about saving but its probably some BS.
    Why is it probably bs? Who pays to administer the teacher's pension fund?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Why is it probably bs? Who pays to administer the teacher's pension fund?
    Atrf is paid directly from the profits of the fund:

    "The current management costs related to ATRF are very low and are paid for out of returns of the fund; as a result, this change would have no impact on the government’s bottom line. At 0.05 per cent of plan assets (2017–18), the administration cost of ATRF is very, very low. When all costs are added in (operating expenses, management fees and performance fees), the investment cost is 0.84 per cent of asset value, which, given ATRF’s strong rates of return is a very reasonable investment to achieve superior results. Costs have to be considered in relation to investment returns. If investment returns are lower, then the fact that costs are also lower doesn’t matter."

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobe tai View Post
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    Yup. And neither Atrf or Aimco were consulted beforehand and only found out about this reading the budget. Greasy Kenney at work,
    Greasy Kenney. The day after he announced the seizure, Aimco announced it was buying a pipeline.

    Worst part is, Aimcos returns are worse then where the pensions were.

    Time to strike.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kobe tai View Post
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    Hence why they shouldn't be handling a fund that has been managed extremely well by Atrf already. I don't know what administrative costs they are talking about saving but its probably some BS.
    Yep, the former CEO came out and said it was an outright lie. Nothing would be saved, it would cost more, and the performance historically is much worse. Probably because Aimco invests in dead-end industry.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    Did you even read the article?


    It’s literally an article speculating that AIMCO could suggest investing in oil, but teachers still have a say so it probably won’t happen.

    Feel free to reuse your rhetoric if it actually happens.
    Your superficial googling is getting tiresome. You are disrespectful to the professions and have no clue what is involved.

    It's obvious at this point to anyone that Kenney does not have good intentions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04Terminator View Post
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    Your superficial googling is getting tiresome. You are disrespectful to the professions and have no clue what is involved.

    It's obvious at this point to anyone that Kenney does not have good intentions.
    The fuck you keep going on about googling? I literally quoted the article you posted. Clearly you’re just lifting talking points from whatever social media bubble you’re in without even reading what you posted.

    I guess I’m not wrong. Clearly basic bitches attract basic bitches.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04Terminator View Post
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    .....
    What must really be tiresome is the state of self you must exist in that has you constantly treating people the way you do. Well adjusted people aren't constantly abusive to everyone around them with such extremes as you.

    It's sad, I hope you find a way out of that one day. You deserve better from yourself. I'm definitely done dipping into that toxicity, it doesn't help you.
    Last edited by JRSC00LUDE; 12-07-2019 at 08:32 AM.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

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