UCP supporters why you so silent?

[davidI]

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How about instead of just handing out tax cut after tax cut to the wealthy and corporations we use that money to maintain our essential services?

Just remember, despite all these cuts the 2019/2020 budget under the UCP has a higher deficit than last years NDP budget (after excluding the rail car butout)

The corporate tax rate is still 1% higher than it was before the NDP came into power. The NDP raised it from 10% to 12% and yet managed to run the deficit and debt up to leave us in the situation we're now in.

Comparing the first year of the UCP's budget to the last year of the NDP's budget isn't exactly reasonable...

The NDP grew the portion of government workers from 19% to 24% of Alberta's workforce. That's not going to correct itself overnight.

At least it seems the UCP is trying to plan towards a balanced budget - something the NDP and Federal Liberals can't seem to wrap their brains around.

[kertejud2]

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Maybe this is the right place to ask, but did AHS get a "cut" in its budget, or just less of an increase than they were thinking? Seems like an important distinction.

1% increase (compared to 3% increase year before). I think internally it's kind of what they were expecting insofar as they knew the UCP promise of 'maintaining healthcare funding' didn't translate to 'maintaining healthcare service', as it's effectively a cut in spending power by not keeping up with population growth and inflation (not to mention the noticeable uptick in healthcare related issues that follow tougher economic times). Whether they expected it or not wouldn't change them making a stink about it.

The bigger concern for AHS going forward than a lower than growth budget adjustment is losing doctors the province spent a lot of money training because of the location billing policy. As important as nurses are to front line health they're a lot easier to replace en masse when you need to (and a lot easier to find adequate low-paid nurses). It's really expensive to bring in doctors when you want to dictate where they work (see: Alberta during the 2000s to 2012 needing to offer large compensation packages to get doctors to go to rural areas, part of the reason the costs are much higher than the national average), and any medical student in Alberta who will be entering the field in 2022 will quickly start looking elsewhere so they don't have to do deal with an already-failed-elsewhere policy.

If people want to know why UCP supporters are so silent, asking how they're okay with forcing on the most centrally-planned government policy regarding doctors the country has seen since the Maritimes did it (and have since abandoned it because it didn't work). Most can justify cuts in funding, I don't know how they can justify that part of Bill 21.

[killramos]

I love how people think showing that the 2019/20 UCP budget is higher than the NDP projected is somehow a defense if the NDP.

When it really just shows how bad at math they are.

[04Terminator]

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I love how people think showing that the 2019/20 UCP budget is higher than the NDP projected is somehow a defense if the NDP.

When it really just shows how bad at math they are.

No, it shows how much better income earners NDP were, and how they understand economy, versus hellbent and destroying it at the behest of private industry like UCP are.

[Xtrema]

It's union busting exercise more than a money saving one.

Now I slowly understand why UCP's projected debt isn't that much better than NDP.

[Lex350]

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Maybe I am just living in an ecochamber on my other social media platforms, but it seems UCP supporters are auspiciously quiet at this time. Are you surprised by the cuts and impact it will have on yourself and your children?

If you can to troll maybe you should take it to r/calgary or r/alberta on Reddit. There you can bask in the glow of NDP self righteousness instead of hear were you will actually have people that can carry on a discussion.

[pheoxs]

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The corporate tax rate is still 1% higher than it was before the NDP came into power. The NDP raised it from 10% to 12% and yet managed to run the deficit and debt up to leave us in the situation we're now in.

Comparing the first year of the UCP's budget to the last year of the NDP's budget isn't exactly reasonable...

The NDP grew the portion of government workers from 19% to 24% of Alberta's workforce. That's not going to correct itself overnight.

At least it seems the UCP is trying to plan towards a balanced budget - something the NDP and Federal Liberals can't seem to wrap their brains around.

The conservatives ran our province into the ground long before the NDP did anything. Everyone seems to forget Prentice called the election because they were putting forward a budget with a 6 billion dollar deficit. The NDP did exactly what they should've done, they spent money to keep things going when they did as Alberta was in a recession in 2015/2016 (Our GDP growth was negative). Then in 2017/2018 when we were no longer in a recession they started reeling in the budget.

Statscan shows Oct 2019 there were 447.9 thousand public workers to 2.356.9 million which is 19%. So not sure where you are getting your numbers from but no, 24% of our work force is not public employees.

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I love how people think showing that the 2019/20 UCP budget is higher than the NDP projected is somehow a defense if the NDP.

When it really just shows how bad at math they are.

What I look at is our growth. NDP inherited an economy that was slowing down a lot and entering a recession. We had two bad years and then our GDP began growing again and although we lost a lot of jobs, things here in 2019 are actually pretty decent. It's not the crazy boom that everyone thinks is normal, but our unemployment levelled off and there is at least some movement in jobs.

[Xtrema]

While I agree it's manufactured outrage. Nurse's new contract is next year. 500 FTE over 3 year is never firm but really just a bargaining chip for negotiation.

I'm sure the union agrees to 2-5% cut to wages, those 500 FTE magically reappears.

[ExtraSlow]

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1% increase (compared to 3% increase year before). I think internally it's kind of what they were expecting insofar as they knew the UCP promise of 'maintaining healthcare funding' didn't translate to 'maintaining healthcare service', as it's effectively a cut in spending power by not keeping up with population growth and inflation (not to mention the noticeable uptick in healthcare related issues that follow tougher economic times). Whether they expected it or not wouldn't change them making a stink about it.

Thank you, that's a clear explanation, and a good place to start. It's an increase in funding below the projected increase in "need". A little crazy to call that a cut, but whatever.

[01RedDX]

.

[dirtsniffer]

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The conservatives ran our province into the ground long before the NDP did anything. Everyone seems to forget Prentice called the election because they were putting forward a budget with a 6 billion dollar deficit. The NDP did exactly what they should've done, they spent money to keep things going when they did as Alberta was in a recession in 2015/2016 (Our GDP growth was negative). Then in 2017/2018 when we were no longer in a recession they started reeling in the budget.

Statscan shows Oct 2019 there were 447.9 thousand public workers to 2.356.9 million which is 19%. So not sure where you are getting your numbers from but no, 24% of our work force is not public employees.

The red tories that ran the province for 10 years were absolutely part of the problem.

[ExtraSlow]

Why spend energy talking to someone who doesn't want to listen? I think the "UCP supporters" understand that idea better than the other side, whatever we are calling them.

[killramos]

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Why spend energy talking to someone who doesn't want to listen? I think the "UCP supporters" understand that idea better than the other side, whatever we are calling them.

On the topic of the thread, my comment is generally “to what end”.

What benefit could I possibly obtain by arguing with friends and family on Facebook about the pros and cons of my chosen majority government. So much to lose, so little to gain.

I find it to be guilty entertainment on beyond, I couldn’t care less if I change anyone’s minds on here nor what the vast majority of you think of me.

If I want to effect change in the real world I would much rather spend my efforts working with the party on a unified strategy to sway voters, but internet trolls who were never voting UCP/FedCon anyways? Who cares.

[riander5]

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I rest my case. The typical empty head dumbass shitting on essential services which have been running on insufficient budgets for years, despite the FACT that health and education are proven SURE THING investments that pay for themselves, with interest.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ear...tion-1.4374820

Wow some unquantifiable study - way to go! One thing i know is other than teaching the building blocks for learning.... math and reading... school had 0 effect on peoples success or societal contributions. You could already peg the winners and losers as early as junior high (there are always some exceptions to the rule of course people who had bad teen years and became successful) and their success was much closer tied to their upbringing, family situation, and friend groups than if they had 30 vs 35 people in their applied math 10 class...

Keep drinking the kool-aid pal.

[davidI]

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Statscan shows Oct 2019 there were 447.9 thousand public workers to 2.356.9 million which is 19%. So not sure where you are getting your numbers from but no, 24% of our work force is not public employees.

I don't like quoting anything from the Calgary Sun, and particularly Gunter, given how partisan the are, but that's where I read it. Not sure where he took it from but based on what I saw happen over the NDP's tenure, it seems like a realistic figure.

"Under the NDP government for four years, the public-sector grew from 19 per cent of Alberta’s workforce to nearer 24 per cent. There were no layoffs. And wage increases kept coming."

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/colu...pHiaCS06KbCg7U

[04Terminator]

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Wow some unquantifiable study - way to go! One thing i know is other than teaching the building blocks for learning.... math and reading... school had 0 effect on peoples success or societal contributions. You could already peg the winners and losers as early as junior high (there are always some exceptions to the rule of course people who had bad teen years and became successful) and their success was much closer tied to their upbringing, family situation, and friend groups than if they had 30 vs 35 people in their applied math 10 class...

Keep drinking the kool-aid pal.

UCP ideologues are the only kool aid drinkers .

There's hundreds of studies that prove improving health and education improves productivity, GDP, reduces crime, reliance on social nets etc.

And it's common sense for for fuck sakes. Statistically speaking, its obvious that health and education would improve productivity.

This whole UCP stance, and privatization, is not genuine. No one believes it works. In fact it was used to destroy countries and economies , it has never saved one. That's the worst part. Supporting a position whose only purpose is to steal from the poor and gift to the rich and destruction of public services and infrastructure.

[MalibuStacy]

To clarify, I didn't intend to troll, but there seemed to be a severe lack of posts which focused on the impact these cuts can have.

Not really surprised as beyond has always been full of conservatives and I am mostly just a lowly lurking presence.

[ExtraSlow]

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To clarify, I didn't intend to troll, but there seemed to be a severe lack of posts which focused on the impact these cuts can have.

Not really surprised as beyond has always been full of conservatives and I am mostly just a lowly lurking presence.

I think the "impact" of these cuts is now an incredibly polarized and political discussion. It basically impossible to have a reasonable discourse on this topic, or at least it has in my social circle.

Case in point, I know a teacher that told me the cuts would result in an immediate loss of 3 teachers in her school. Now it's a big school, but how the fuck does a 3% cut result in 3 full time positions being cut in a single school? If it does, that sounds like a targeted choice of the CBE administration, rather than a problem with the cuts. My questions went nowhere, so I don't ask those questions any more.

[lasimmon]

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To clarify, I didn't intend to troll, but there seemed to be a severe lack of posts which focused on the impact these cuts can have.

Not really surprised as beyond has always been full of conservatives and I am mostly just a lowly lurking presence.

Perhaps a lot of people aren't upset or don't disagree with the cuts?

[ExtraSlow]

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Perhaps a lot of people aren't upset or don't disagree with the cuts?

Oh good point. I'm someone who voted UCP, and I don't regret that choice, and I also don't disagree with the currently announced budget cut for Education or the Budget increase for AHS. I'm on board for both.