UCP supporters why you so silent?

[kertejud2]

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I think the "impact" of these cuts is now an incredibly polarized and political discussion. It basically impossible to have a reasonable discourse on this topic, or at least it has in my social circle.

Case in point, I know a teacher that told me the cuts would result in an immediate loss of 3 teachers in her school. Now it's a big school, but how the fuck does a 3% cut result in 3 full time positions being cut in a single school? If it does, that sounds like a targeted choice of the CBE administration, rather than a problem with the cuts. My questions went nowhere, so I don't ask those questions any more.

$32M cut, 240 schools is just over $130K per school in funding cuts. Some schools might lose 3 teachers, some might lose less and some more. It depends on what contracts the teachers were on, but that would be about $45K per temp teacher which isn't out of reality. Given the contracts of other teachers you might not be able to get rid of admin and other positions without taking a larger hit this year meaning you couldn't actually save money from getting rid of them for this budget cycle anyway. So the temp contracts not getting renewed is the easiest way to make those savings.

Had the UCP not purposely waited until after the school year started to announce the budget, it probably could have been planned better to reduce the impact of front line jobs.

[ExtraSlow]

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$32M cut, 240 schools is just over $130K per school in funding cuts. Some schools might lose 3 teachers, some might lose less and some more. It depends on what contracts the teachers were on, but that would be about $45K per temp teacher which isn't out of reality. Given the contracts of other teachers you might not be able to get rid of admin and other positions without taking a larger hit this year meaning you couldn't actually save money from getting rid of them for this budget cycle anyway. So the temp contracts not getting renewed is the easiest way to make those savings.

I don't disagree with the "maybe this" or "maybe that" math of the situation. I also don't disagree with the cuts. However, the teachers, possibly being mislead by their union, are exaggerating the impact in the extreme.

[kertejud2]

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I don't disagree with the "maybe this" or "maybe that" math of the situation. I also don't disagree with the cuts. However, the teachers, possibly being mislead by their union, are exaggerating the impact in the extreme.

What do you mean by exaggerating the impact? We know that they're not renewing 300 temporary teacher contracts come January, if the school had 3 teachers on temp contracts then they would lose 3 teachers, there's nothing to exaggerate about that. It's just what it is.

[lasimmon]

Is front line teachers the only spot they can cut costs?

[04Terminator]

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Is front line teachers the only spot they can cut costs?

Education in Alberta has always been underfunded. Always struggling for resources. There were strikes in 1992 and 2002. They make it sound like there is lots to trim, but all the easy stuff was done long ago. There on 74 supers for 40,000 teachers and they took a big paycut in 2018.

Public services like health and education are constantly struggling against privatization frenzied governments.

Defund
Destroy
Privatize
Bail out

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UikhLJNLFK4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7l15n8QR0o

[rage2]

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Is front line teachers the only spot they can cut costs?

We'll find out soon enough. CBE claims that's the only place. Provincial government reviewing their budget to see otherwise.

[ExtraSlow]

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What do you mean by exaggerating the impact? We know that they're not renewing 300 temporary teacher contracts come January, if the school had 3 teachers on temp contracts then they would lose 3 teachers, there's nothing to exaggerate about that. It's just what it is.

Maybe it was poorly phrased. What I mean is that the teachers make it sound like it's three full time teachers lost in every school, at Jason Kenney's direct insistence, when you are right, it's mostly temp positions, and a different number in different schools, and it's at the CBE's choice because they refuse to cut anywhere but front-line positions.

Is that clearer and now correct? I don't want to exaggerate anything.

[Buster]

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Maybe it was poorly phrased. What I mean is that the teachers make it sound like it's three full time teachers lost in every school, at Jason Kenney's direct insistence, when you are right, it's mostly temp positions, and a different number in different schools, and it's at the CBE's choice because they refuse to cut anywhere but front-line positions.

Is that clearer and now correct? I don't want to exaggerate anything.

prediction: within 1 page in this thread you will be in an argument about what "full time" or "frontline" or "temp" means.

[kertejud2]

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Is front line teachers the only spot they can cut costs?

I suppose they could try to squeeze more meat out of the gym mats and switch to malk, turn the heat down and tell kids to wear a sweater, but options are limited with a mid-year cut. Any other staff with contracts that run to the end of the year (or further) might not result in any savings and might even cost money. Temp teachers won't cost anything to get rid of. IIRC the CBE is already lower than average for admin costs because they already went through a big squeeze a couple years ago and as much as we can point at bad deals they made in the past (like the office lease), those are sunk costs and aren't available for savings.

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We'll find out soon enough. CBE claims that's the only place. Provincial government reviewing their budget to see otherwise.

Minister of Education now wants them to take from the maintenance budget instead, so it's all definitely been thought out well from the top.

[ExtraSlow]

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prediction: within 1 page in this thread you will be in an argument about what "full time" or "frontline" or "temp" means.

I suspect so, but hey, I have a little spare time in my workday today.

[kertejud2]

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Maybe it was poorly phrased. What I mean is that the teachers make it sound like it's three full time teachers lost in every school, at Jason Kenney's direct insistence, when you are right, it's mostly temp positions, and a different number in different schools, and it's at the CBE's choice because they refuse to cut anywhere but front-line positions.

Is that clearer and now correct? I don't want to exaggerate anything.

So we've gone from 'they said they're losing 3 teachers in their school' to '3 teachers in every school!'?

But you're not exaggerating.

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prediction: within 1 page in this thread you will be in an argument about what "full time" or "frontline" or "temp" means.

Because why would those things matter?

A temp teacher isn't like an office temp. It's a temporary contract. A full-time teacher goes on maternity leave? A temp teacher replaces them. A teacher gets sick and needs to take time away for treatment? A temp replaces them.

Start a year with 3 full time teachers on mat leave, and the 3 temp teachers used to replace them don't get replaced, how many full time teachers are you now short to finish off the school year? Head into the next year and the mat leave isn't up, and you don't have the budget for temp teachers, how many full time teachers are you still down at that school?

Oh, that was easy. Argument over, it was pretty one sided.

[dirtsniffer]

5 million for small equipment? found the savings.

[suntan]

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Education in Alberta has always been underfunded. Always struggling for resources. There were strikes in 1992 and 2002. They make it sound like there is lots to trim, but all the easy stuff was done long ago. There on 74 supers for 40,000 teachers and they took a big paycut in 2018.

Public services like health and education are constantly struggling against privatization frenzied governments.

Defund
Destroy
Privatize
Bail out

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UikhLJNLFK4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7l15n8QR0o

It's really sad how little you know. The ATA pension was underfunded by a couple billion, the Redfraud gov't topped it up. Think of the children!

The CBE's lease on their building downtown is terrible. I'm sure you know nothing about it.

And linking fucking Chomsky. ROFL.

[370Z]

The boomers (who are majority, no pun intended, UCP voters) are all still on Facebook... pick any local news outlets Facebook page and browse the vile racist/ homophobic/ sexist/ you name it comments being made all day every day.

[vengie]

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5 million for small equipment? found the savings.

Two weeks before Mat leave, my wife was handed a brand new MacBook Air as a work computer, and her two year old MacBook Pro was taken back...
$2400 work laptop every two years??

For comparison, my $800 Lenovo thinkpad is still running strong 6 years later and it’s used almost daily.

But no, there is nowhere they can find savings...

[ExtraSlow]

TLDR:
OP: Why UCP are supporters silent?
UCP supporters: Voicing our opinion isn't productive when the "other side" has it's mind made up
UCP supporters: But... Here's my opinion on the situation
"the other side": Disagrees
Everyone: Bickers
Everyone: Doesn't change their mind

I guess the OP has had their question fully answered.

[killramos]

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Two weeks before Mat leave, my wife was handed a brand new MacBook Air as a work computer, and her two year old MacBook Pro was taken back...
$2400 work laptop every two years??

For comparison, my $800 Lenovo thinkpad is still running strong 6 years later and it’s used almost daily.

But no, there is nowhere they can find savings...

Or the few hundred iPads in every school that also get replaced every 2 years.

[hampstor]

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I think the "impact" of these cuts is now an incredibly polarized and political discussion. It basically impossible to have a reasonable discourse on this topic, or at least it has in my social circle.

Case in point, I know a teacher that told me the cuts would result in an immediate loss of 3 teachers in her school. Now it's a big school, but how the fuck does a 3% cut result in 3 full time positions being cut in a single school? If it does, that sounds like a targeted choice of the CBE administration, rather than a problem with the cuts. My questions went nowhere, so I don't ask those questions any more.

Yeah that's basically where i'm at on this topic too. It's become an "us vs them" zero sum discussion.

Ministries operate just like departments in a corporation. If a department get less operating budget than what they asked for, they reprioritize and makes changes to business plans. Sometimes this means cutting operating costs like training, events, laptop refreshes, reducing maintenance schedules (running things to failure and replacing vs. proactive maintenance), reduces salaries, bonuses, reducing contractors, or reducing FTEs.

If any department just goes to cutting FTEs without doing anything else, you should be questioning why they are doing that, not blindly holding it up as an example of the evil conservative trump supporters who are lining the pockets of big business at the expense of the people. It blows my mind that people will hide behind "You don't care about health, you're just supporting big corporations, you don't care about students" as a strawman against very basic business and budgeting practices.

Cutting 300 FTE's and not getting called out on it is hilarious. No reduction in training budget, no reduction in non union staff wages, no reduction in maintenance plans, no deferred technology plans, no reductions in contractors, no analysis of in source vs. outsourced work, no capital plan on how to reduce operating costs, and on and on.

To be clear, all the jobs are not going to be saved by cutting back on office supplies budget, but if you don't even look at your office supplies budget, then you're going to have very limited credibility with decision makers when you say "I don't have enough money to run my business".

[riander5]

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I suspect so, but hey, I have a little spare time in my workday today.

Wait.. are you trying to sling affiliate links for cellphones in your signature

[Buster]

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Because why would those things matter?

A temp teacher isn't like an office temp. It's a temporary contract. A full-time teacher goes on maternity leave? A temp teacher replaces them. A teacher gets sick and needs to take time away for treatment? A temp replaces them.

Start a year with 3 full time teachers on mat leave, and the 3 temp teachers used to replace them don't get replaced, how many full time teachers are you now short to finish off the school year? Head into the next year and the mat leave isn't up, and you don't have the budget for temp teachers, how many full time teachers are you still down at that school?

Oh, that was easy. Argument over, it was pretty one sided.

I'm playing 4d chess over here!