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Thread: Formula 1 2020 Pre-Season Discussion

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo View Post
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    Toe out under braking doesn’t make sense, the wheels will want to naturally toe out under braking, wouldn’t they want to toe in to try and neutralize it and prevent scrub, then slight toe out to help turn in?
    It's definitely toe out in corner to help with turn in, toe in on straights to reduce tire cross section aero drag. Although slight, they are fighting for a few thousandths of a lap here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Coming to an AMG street car near you in 2025.
    GT-R and GT-C Roadster already has it. Controls tow in the rear axel depending on what you're doing. All wheel steering has been around forever, prelude, 300zx. It's novel in F1 because nobody figured out how to do it within the rules.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagare View Post
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    It's definitely toe out in corner to help with turn in, toe in on straights to reduce tire cross section aero drag. Although slight, they are fighting for a few thousandths of a lap here.
    The bigger advantage is controlling tire wear and tire temperatures throughout a lap.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    That didn't take long:

    "Marko believes DAS is ‘forbidden & prohibited"

    They will protest it in Australia. Behind the scenes they will be building their own version as fast as they can.
    I don't think it's illegal because a driver can equally fuck it up, which negates the purpose. Now if the engineer from the sidelines did it at a push of a button, then definitely I'd fight it.

    Sounds like they are just bitching they didn't think about it earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    GT-R and GT-C Roadster already has it. Controls tow in the rear axel depending on what you're doing. All wheel steering has been around forever, prelude, 300zx. It's novel in F1 because nobody figured out how to do it within the rules.
    that's on the back axle isnt it?

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    Yup. Rear toe changes maximize straight line acceleration and rear stability. We don’t need front changes as we don’t have to worry about tire wear or tire temperatures. Unless you’re using p zeros haha.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstah View Post
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    I don't think it's illegal because a driver can equally fuck it up, which negates the purpose. Now if the engineer from the sidelines did it at a push of a button, then definitely I'd fight it.

    Sounds like they are just bitching they didn't think about it earlier.
    Legal now, illegal in 2021:

    Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

    They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    Legal now, illegal in 2021:

    Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

    They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.
    Dang. I wonder if the rest of the pack will have their own setup halfway through this season. No way they can manipulate the chassis that quick for Australia... Can they?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    Legal now, illegal in 2021:

    Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

    They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.
    Yup. Surprised nobody picked up on that. I'll bet the lawyers are combing thru the rulebooks right now haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipstah View Post
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    Dang. I wonder if the rest of the pack will have their own setup halfway through this season. No way they can manipulate the chassis that quick for Australia... Can they?...
    It's not a complicated system. The complexity in copying this is packaging. The nose is designed to be as small as possible as the front of the car influences the aero performance over the rest of the car. You change any of that up front and it impacts aero throughout the car. No F1 designer is going to leave unused space there, so trying to shoehorn this in will be near impossible. Then there's RBR's case where the tie rods are so far back that this concept won't even work for them. Expect RBR to bitch the hardest because of this.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    All this Mercedes talk has almost made all of Ferrari's issues fly under the radar. Maybe their packaging is too aggressive, which turned into engine issues. Week 2 is when we should get a proper look at if Ferrari can be 2nd or 3rd this year.

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    I'm reading some stuff about the legalities of DAS behind the Parc Ferme regulations. Should be interesting to see what the decision comes to

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/d...nault/4691684/

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    Also, I'm also curious about what happens during an impact on the front wheels? If it pushes the wheel back or forward does that create a safety issue by jarring the driver's hands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTown View Post
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    I'm reading some stuff about the legalities of DAS behind the Parc Ferme regulations. Should be interesting to see what the decision comes to

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/d...nault/4691684/
    Every time you steer the suspension geometry, including toe angle changes. Everyone starts in pit lane haha.

    Realistically, DAS’ benefit in long runs so wouldn’t be an issue just not using it in qualifying.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Sketchy... "FIA announces private "settlement" with Ferrari over F1 engine"

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ement/4700615/

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    No surprise, everyone knew they were cheating during the stretch of their success last season. Hokey they're not releasing details and more so just announcing this at the end of testing but go figure.

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    Could this settlement be akin to the mercedes DAS? A loophole was found, and 'plugged' by the FIA for future seasons

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTown View Post
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    Could this settlement be akin to the mercedes DAS? A loophole was found, and 'plugged' by the FIA for future seasons
    There are hints that this was triggered by Ferrari whistleblowers. Ferrari “complied” because they didn’t tell FIA the whole story. Once they were approached by Ferrari staff, they did a full investigation and found the problems which may or may not be illegal, but at a minimum contravened the spirit of the rules. It’s kept between the 2 because Ferrari agreed to help catch others doing similar stuff, but didn’t want to reveal exactly what they did in tears of other teams trying to invest in that area.

    Publicly, Ferrari has continuously denied cheating, but continue to reiterate that they are down on power this year because they redesigned their engine to improve reliability. Testing data has so far shown that Ferrari is definitely down on power, but other teams aren’t, which makes sense other teams weren’t privy to the power tricks that Ferrari was using.

    Whatever the tricks were, it was clear that after the directives came pouring down from RBR clarifications, one of them hit the mark, and Ferrari was down by nearly 100hp and completely lost their competitiveness.

    I’m sure we’ll know more in the upcoming weeks.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    There are hints that this was triggered by Ferrari whistleblowers. Ferrari “complied” because they didn’t tell FIA the whole story. Once they were approached by Ferrari staff, they did a full investigation and found the problems which may or may not be illegal, but at a minimum contravened the spirit of the rules. It’s kept between the 2 because Ferrari agreed to help catch others doing similar stuff, but didn’t want to reveal exactly what they did in tears of other teams trying to invest in that area.

    Publicly, Ferrari has continuously denied cheating, but continue to reiterate that they are down on power this year because they redesigned their engine to improve reliability. Testing data has so far shown that Ferrari is definitely down on power, but other teams aren’t, which makes sense other teams weren’t privy to the power tricks that Ferrari was using.

    Whatever the tricks were, it was clear that after the directives came pouring down from RBR clarifications, one of them hit the mark, and Ferrari was down by nearly 100hp and completely lost their competitiveness.

    I’m sure we’ll know more in the upcoming weeks.
    When Ferrari's power advantage first came to light, Mercedes said they can replicate the same acceleration that Ferrari displays on their engines based on GPS data but that would mean breaking the rules based on their interpretation.
    Mercedes then asked for clarifications if it's actually legal.
    They then gave part of their findings to RBR in exchange for them pushing for clarifications as well.

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    So, Ferrari wasnt sangbagging this year ..... ouch. Maybe well see less Vettel spins as he has less power .... LOL

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