Formula 1 2020 Pre-Season Discussion

[Cagare]

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Toe out under braking doesn’t make sense, the wheels will want to naturally toe out under braking, wouldn’t they want to toe in to try and neutralize it and prevent scrub, then slight toe out to help turn in?

It's definitely toe out in corner to help with turn in, toe in on straights to reduce tire cross section aero drag. Although slight, they are fighting for a few thousandths of a lap here.

[rage2]

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Coming to an AMG street car near you in 2025.

GT-R and GT-C Roadster already has it. Controls tow in the rear axel depending on what you're doing. All wheel steering has been around forever, prelude, 300zx. It's novel in F1 because nobody figured out how to do it within the rules.

[rage2]

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It's definitely toe out in corner to help with turn in, toe in on straights to reduce tire cross section aero drag. Although slight, they are fighting for a few thousandths of a lap here.

The bigger advantage is controlling tire wear and tire temperatures throughout a lap.

[flipstah]

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That didn't take long:

"Marko believes DAS is ‘forbidden & prohibited"

They will protest it in Australia. Behind the scenes they will be building their own version as fast as they can.

I don't think it's illegal because a driver can equally fuck it up, which negates the purpose. Now if the engineer from the sidelines did it at a push of a button, then definitely I'd fight it.

Sounds like they are just bitching they didn't think about it earlier.

[Buster]

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GT-R and GT-C Roadster already has it. Controls tow in the rear axel depending on what you're doing. All wheel steering has been around forever, prelude, 300zx. It's novel in F1 because nobody figured out how to do it within the rules.

that's on the back axle isnt it?

[rage2]

Yup. Rear toe changes maximize straight line acceleration and rear stability. We don’t need front changes as we don’t have to worry about tire wear or tire temperatures. Unless you’re using p zeros haha.

[Chandler_Racing]

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I don't think it's illegal because a driver can equally fuck it up, which negates the purpose. Now if the engineer from the sidelines did it at a push of a button, then definitely I'd fight it.

Sounds like they are just bitching they didn't think about it earlier.

Legal now, illegal in 2021:

Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.

[flipstah]

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Legal now, illegal in 2021:

Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.

Dang. I wonder if the rest of the pack will have their own setup halfway through this season. No way they can manipulate the chassis that quick for Australia... Can they?...

[rage2]

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Legal now, illegal in 2021:

Article 10.5 of F1’s 2021 technical regulations states: “The realignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.”

They obviously wrote that into the technical regulations based on Mercedes correspondence with them on the matter.

Yup. Surprised nobody picked up on that. I'll bet the lawyers are combing thru the rulebooks right now haha.

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Dang. I wonder if the rest of the pack will have their own setup halfway through this season. No way they can manipulate the chassis that quick for Australia... Can they?...

It's not a complicated system. The complexity in copying this is packaging. The nose is designed to be as small as possible as the front of the car influences the aero performance over the rest of the car. You change any of that up front and it impacts aero throughout the car. No F1 designer is going to leave unused space there, so trying to shoehorn this in will be near impossible. Then there's RBR's case where the tie rods are so far back that this concept won't even work for them. Expect RBR to bitch the hardest because of this.

[npham]

All this Mercedes talk has almost made all of Ferrari's issues fly under the radar. Maybe their packaging is too aggressive, which turned into engine issues. Week 2 is when we should get a proper look at if Ferrari can be 2nd or 3rd this year.

[OTown]

I'm reading some stuff about the legalities of DAS behind the Parc Ferme regulations. Should be interesting to see what the decision comes to

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/d...nault/4691684/

[OTown]

Also, I'm also curious about what happens during an impact on the front wheels? If it pushes the wheel back or forward does that create a safety issue by jarring the driver's hands?

[rage2]

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I'm reading some stuff about the legalities of DAS behind the Parc Ferme regulations. Should be interesting to see what the decision comes to

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/d...nault/4691684/

Every time you steer the suspension geometry, including toe angle changes. Everyone starts in pit lane haha.

Realistically, DAS’ benefit in long runs so wouldn’t be an issue just not using it in qualifying.

[Chandler_Racing]

Sketchy... "FIA announces private "settlement" with Ferrari over F1 engine"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ement/4700615/

[2Legit2Quit]

No surprise, everyone knew they were cheating during the stretch of their success last season. Hokey they're not releasing details and more so just announcing this at the end of testing but go figure.

[OTown]

Could this settlement be akin to the mercedes DAS? A loophole was found, and 'plugged' by the FIA for future seasons

[rage2]

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Could this settlement be akin to the mercedes DAS? A loophole was found, and 'plugged' by the FIA for future seasons

There are hints that this was triggered by Ferrari whistleblowers. Ferrari “complied” because they didn’t tell FIA the whole story. Once they were approached by Ferrari staff, they did a full investigation and found the problems which may or may not be illegal, but at a minimum contravened the spirit of the rules. It’s kept between the 2 because Ferrari agreed to help catch others doing similar stuff, but didn’t want to reveal exactly what they did in tears of other teams trying to invest in that area.

Publicly, Ferrari has continuously denied cheating, but continue to reiterate that they are down on power this year because they redesigned their engine to improve reliability. Testing data has so far shown that Ferrari is definitely down on power, but other teams aren’t, which makes sense other teams weren’t privy to the power tricks that Ferrari was using.

Whatever the tricks were, it was clear that after the directives came pouring down from RBR clarifications, one of them hit the mark, and Ferrari was down by nearly 100hp and completely lost their competitiveness.

I’m sure we’ll know more in the upcoming weeks.

[chongkee_]

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There are hints that this was triggered by Ferrari whistleblowers. Ferrari “complied” because they didn’t tell FIA the whole story. Once they were approached by Ferrari staff, they did a full investigation and found the problems which may or may not be illegal, but at a minimum contravened the spirit of the rules. It’s kept between the 2 because Ferrari agreed to help catch others doing similar stuff, but didn’t want to reveal exactly what they did in tears of other teams trying to invest in that area.

Publicly, Ferrari has continuously denied cheating, but continue to reiterate that they are down on power this year because they redesigned their engine to improve reliability. Testing data has so far shown that Ferrari is definitely down on power, but other teams aren’t, which makes sense other teams weren’t privy to the power tricks that Ferrari was using.

Whatever the tricks were, it was clear that after the directives came pouring down from RBR clarifications, one of them hit the mark, and Ferrari was down by nearly 100hp and completely lost their competitiveness.

I’m sure we’ll know more in the upcoming weeks.

When Ferrari's power advantage first came to light, Mercedes said they can replicate the same acceleration that Ferrari displays on their engines based on GPS data but that would mean breaking the rules based on their interpretation.
Mercedes then asked for clarifications if it's actually legal.
They then gave part of their findings to RBR in exchange for them pushing for clarifications as well.

[revelations]

So, Ferrari wasnt sangbagging this year ..... ouch. Maybe well see less Vettel spins as he has less power .... LOL