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  1. #1
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    Cool PHEV thread (potentially mega)

    Tesla fambois complained when I mentioned a PHEV in that thread, so here's a separate place for all PHEV talk.
    Ford Escape and Toyota Rav4 PHEV options coming out in 2020, which will hit the sweet spot for families.
    Mitsubishi Outlander is apparently the current top selling PHEV in Canada right now.

    I think the whole PHEV concept is really nice for av average driver. All-electric range covers most daily trips, and no range anxiety for longer weekend trips. Costs are in-line with current family vehicles too, so not the massive cost premium of a true EV.

    What's the most interesting PHEV to you?
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    How many Prius threads does beyond really need
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    Lots more man.
    Make the world a radder place, grow a mullet.
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    Will look more seriously towards the end of 2022 to replace wife's car with the Rav. Will let the bugs get worked out and crazy hype die down before leaping.

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    That Rav4 actually looks awesome. 5.8s 0-60 is better than the new beyond fave cute ute (RDX).

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    I'm interested in the 2019 Cayenne e-hybrid. I've been looking for something PHEV to replace the Toureg as a family hauler and race car tow vehicle. The new hybrid Cayenne's finally come with tow hitches. It won't be a couple years until we're shopping, but that one is at the top of the list.

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    Doing my part to make this thread mega. Take the post count.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinL View Post
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    I'm interested in the 2019 Cayenne e-hybrid. I've been looking for something PHEV to replace the Toureg as a family hauler and race car tow vehicle. The new hybrid Cayenne's finally come with tow hitches. It won't be a couple years until we're shopping, but that one is at the top of the list.
    Hitches for bike racks, or actually rated to tow something?
    Make the world a radder place, grow a mullet.
    Public Mobile is the best, just like Phil Collins' mullet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Hitches for bike racks, or actually rated to tow something?
    7700 lbs towing capacity and 1635 lbs payload. That's plenty to tow my aluminium car hauler with a 944 race car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinL View Post
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    7700 lbs towing capacity and 1635 lbs payload. That's plenty to tow my aluminium car hauler with a 944 race car.
    Yep, that's a very good rating.
    Make the world a radder place, grow a mullet.
    Public Mobile is the best, just like Phil Collins' mullet.

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    So first I had to look up what a PHEV is and once I figured that that acronym had not kept registered with the old grey matter because it doesn't figure into my lifestyle now or anytime soon.

    Also, it's still a vehicle power platform that economically still doesn't make sense for a lot of people because PHEV's and most non-ICE vehicles have to rely upon government subsidy programs and a lot of "make me feel like I'm making a difference" purchaser's. I say that because the environmental cost of producing these batteries plus building out infrastructure for the electricity needed usually is conveniently not discussed. Also, the additional costs versus payback over time are for the most part glossed over, most PHEV's are generally more then 10 years in payback.

    Now I do recognize that a move to an alternative with respect to powering vehicles will have to happen in the future but who's problem will that older non-ICE vehicle become once it's charge keeping core has lost most of its capabilities and will need to be replaced. Most likely not the original owners bcause most of them will never keep that vehicle that long and as such, I see that aging power pack becoming quite a bit of a growing liability in terms of depreciation.

    So will the government step up with more rebates or subsidies to address the end-of-life issues that these vehicles will present? And yeah, it's a whole new set of EOL issues that our world is currently not set up to deal with. Any current ICE vehicle is quite easy and relatively cheap to recycle or even keep going if it's power source needs replacing. Big battery banks made of complex and increasingly exotic materials and combinations of materials means that your regular PnP is not going to be recycling these vehicles.

    So then what, are the auto manufacturers expected to create some sort of new non-ICE vehicle recycling network because I just do not see the PnP's of the world stepping up to the plate and doing this. Maybe a better question to ask is where does someone go right now to get rid of an EOL non-ICE vehicle as there are quite a number of places one can currently go to to get rid of a EOL ICE vehicle and for those that wish to poo-poo all of this, well it is a very real issue that is slowly coming into play.

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    I don’t mind the PHEV movement. It makes sense to me as opposed to full EV.

    At least the feds gave us a $5000 rebate - which can be applied to a 48mth lease.

    That can be quite the help. And in other news I think Quebec gets $13,000 off.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    And therein lies the problem, rebates from our governments. Are there not better places for our tax dollars to be used right now, improving education and healthcare? If you want a non-ICE vehicle then why should you get a subsidy to purchase it? Is this really any different than Calgary's new event Center in that public tax monies are going to effectively subsidize some very rich people? Does Elon or GM or Honda or Toyota or whomever really need public subsidy programs to exist to sell vehicles? Shouldn't non-ICE vehicles be able to stand on their own on a competitive basis without public subsidy programs and if not, then those that can actually afford them will purchase them?

    Edit: I've now realized that this post and my previous post in this thread should not be a part of the discussion in this thread and apologize for that. Another discussion for another time, carry on.
    Last edited by speedog; 12-26-2019 at 11:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedog View Post
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    And therein lies the problem, rebates from our governments. Are there not better places for our tax dollars to be used right now, improving education and healthcare? If you want a non-ICE vehicle then why should you get a subsidy to purchase it? Is this really any different than Calgary's new event Center in that public tax monies are going to effectively subsidize some very rich people? Does Elon or GM or Honda or Toyota or whomever really need public subsidy programs to exist to sell vehicles? Shouldn't non-ICE vehicles be able to stand on their own on a competitive basis without public subsidy programs and if not, then those that can actually afford them will purchase them?
    But, but, climate emergency!

    Yes I agree with your points, but it isn’t feasible to mass produce EVs and get the profits demanded by shareholders.

    Therefore taxpayers take the brunt, because Greta said we have ~12 years to live.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    What will be interesting is the liability for disposal of the battery.

    Legal disposal at swan hills is more than the cars worth new.

    Insurance companies are already refusing to pay for 30day Tesla mandated soaks after a fire. There's a couple lawsuits flying around this now. Insurance companies are walking away from the wrecks and saying sue us.

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    Climate aside, PHEVs are a godsend for performance vehicles. The drivability of hybrids bridges the gap of EVs without the drawbacks. No range anxiety for long trips, no poor cold weather performance, it makes a lot of sense for our colder climate and long distance travel needs. With a proper PHEV setup, you’re also getting a lot more power along with the drivability. My E53 is a stop gap solution for AMG and it’s transformed the car even with its puny 20hp motor compared to the non hybrid 450.

    Still too early for performance vehicle talks, as all the PHEV performance cars are way too expensive for the average joe. NSX, SF90, Polestar 1, McLaren’s new model next year, all too rich for most of us. If rumors are correct, the C63 should be the first relatively affordable performance PHEV.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    If that turns out to be how it is Rage2, we'll be taking a hard look at the C63, as our lease on our LC500 will be up around then, and even though it's going to be a 4cyl/PHEV, the reported numbers are going to be close or even higher than the current C63.

    We've been running a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid/PHEV for running my old man around to his doc appointments/treatments and as a general grocery getter, instead of using our ZR2 truck for that task. Even in the winter (put studded winters on it). It'a a PHEV, and IMO it's fantastic. Never thought I'd like an effing mini van. This thing was what got me interested in Tesla as per the Tesla thread/posts a while back initially. We haven't bothered installing a specific charger, we just use the regular 120. Generally we get 50 to 60 KM from it. In the winter with heated seats on, driving at night with more lights/etc, that drops to the high 40s, but more than enough for a day of zipping around doing errands around town. It's so quiet, drives so nicely on electric, everyone I've let drive/borrow it raves about this, and complains once the juice has run out and the gas motor kicks in, or if it kicks in for other reasons (flooring it mostly).

    I do wish companies would install a feature where you could "save" the electric power stored up, and decide when and where you wanted to employ it. In the Pacifica it immediately uses the electric power, then goes to gas power. For example, we have to drive 65km to another city near my father for monthly specialist appointments, and by the time you get 40 or 50km on the highway, the electric power is drained, and then once you get to the next city, it's just another gas powered van. It'd be nice to be able to override this, use gas on the highway, and the zip around your destination city on electric in town there.

    That said, for daily zipping around town, without any highway use, it's fantastic. Plug it in when it's down to 10, 20%, whatever after a day of using it, and within 8 hours, easily by the next AM morning, it's 100% again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman.45 View Post
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    I do wish companies would install a feature where you could "save" the electric power stored up, and decide when and where you wanted to employ it. In the Pacifica it immediately uses the electric power, then goes to gas power. For example, we have to drive 65km to another city near my father for monthly specialist appointments, and by the time you get 40 or 50km on the highway, the electric power is drained, and then once you get to the next city, it's just another gas powered van. It'd be nice to be able to override this, use gas on the highway, and the zip around your destination city on electric in town there
    this exists on some models.
    Make the world a radder place, grow a mullet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    this exists on some models.
    Like the Ferrari SF90 haha. It can go electric only, hybrid, or gas only mode. But ya, I figure that will be standard fare for all performance PHEVs.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedog View Post
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    And therein lies the problem, rebates from our governments. Are there not better places for our tax dollars to be used right now, improving education and healthcare? If you want a non-ICE vehicle then why should you get a subsidy to purchase it? Is this really any different than Calgary's new event Center in that public tax monies are going to effectively subsidize some very rich people? Does Elon or GM or Honda or Toyota or whomever really need public subsidy programs to exist to sell vehicles? Shouldn't non-ICE vehicles be able to stand on their own on a competitive basis without public subsidy programs and if not, then those that can actually afford them will purchase them?

    Edit: I've now realized that this post and my previous post in this thread should not be a part of the discussion in this thread and apologize for that. Another discussion for another time, carry on.
    If government wants to do something, I rather they do manufacturer EV mandate over rebates. Just look at how many EVs got dump into Cali with cheap leases just so manufacturers can stay in business. Cost us nothing and if you want an EV, everyone can get it for cheap.

    Hybrid/PHEV are both something to tie us over until battery tech is stable/dense/cheap enough to be widely deployed.

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